5.1 experience and router question

[dpdan]

We all can vote with our purchases.

you got that right!

I remember Ramsa, their stuff was pretty incredible then as you say,,, they piss-a-deared.

[WK154]

George (Yorgaki1),
We here would still like some feedback on you gig with the new Netgear router. Good and bad that you experienced'

[dpdan]

Mr. WK... I am going to purchase a new Cisco Linksys router.
I realize like anything else, I could spend a fortune on a new one, but I am interested to know what you would suggest about which "current" model that has a super dooper strong
signal. You know way more than most about these things and I value your opinion.

How about this one?

https://www.linksys.com/us/p/P-WRT3200ACM/

[WK154]

Dan I am assuming that you are just replacing your current Apple AirPort router. Let’s first get some common misconceptions out of the way. We are talking about an Intranet system (no Internet). The Wan port is not connected to anything. This has caused some confusion on indicator lights in the past on Apple routers.  BTW Linksys is now owned by Belkin not Cisco if that matters. Since you are currently limited to iPad’s the latest standard they adhere to is the 802.11AC. No iPads support the new AX standard only the iPhone 11. The real benefits of AX are in its ability to handle a higher traffic rates in the WiFi bands. This may translate into higher speeds but this is not an issue for this application especially since you are using a Dante card in your units (1Gbps). The current offerings of routers in the AX world handle multiple streams (Video mostly) and have no real benefit in this application. What I have proposed in the past is Netgears 2x2 (4 streams) RAX40 router for this since it provides all the benefits for the older clients (iPads etc.) without going overboard with 8 to 12 streams currently available, a waste of resources for this application. The current clients are only 2x2 or 4 streams) anyway. Walmart has a special deal for a RAX35 (Netgear to Walmart exclusive) which in essence is a RX40 without the USB 3 port. Unless that is important a RX35 is fine and now is at $109. I have owned Cisco (the real Cisco) Linksys, Dlink, Netgear and just recently (3 days ago) an ASUS routers and find them quite satisfactory for my applications. I have recommended the AX4 Netgear for a XR16 based sound system for a theater application recently.  Linksys at present has no equivalent and has concentrated on the high end of the spectrum with Velop AX MX10 mesh. They would certainly do the job but are overkill for this application. There are dual band routers available by ASUS, TP-Link and others that would suite this application.
I am currently upgrading my networks and opted for an ASUS RT88U as my primary router. Main reason was 8 1Gbps ports and Beacon time control. I am retaining my Netgear Nighthawk R7900 to handle all the AC devices that eventually will be phased out. None of my road gear has more than AC routers at present.
In conclusion Dan the key is to go with an AX (WiFi 6) based router but not get drawn into the latest craze of expensive Mesh routers for this application.

[dpdan]

thanks for the very detailed info WK!

As far as the WAN port for an internet connection, I am all too familiar with that. During initial setup with the Airport Utility App, I have always instructing the Apple Airport Express and Extreme to "Ignore this issue" with regard to "Ethernet Unplugged" and other "Status Messages" but thanks for that, many people just deal with the yellow light and have never had a pretty green one on the front of the router like they should.

Believe it or not, I am going to be using this new router with my new Yamaha TF mixer. It too will have a Dante card, but unlike the Dante card for the Mackie, the ethernet port for the router is on the rear of the mixer, not part of the Dante card.
 
As you have heard me say before too many times... my Apple routers have always provided nothing but stellar performance for me and my DL32R units, even at what I call great distances. Ironically, this TF mixer and Apple router are sitting only a few feet apart, and the TF mixer's app (Yamaha's StageMix) is losing connection and reconnecting every three to four minutes, sometimes more often than that. I called Yamaha's tech support on Friday and of course they said "we don't recommend the Apple routers". So, I asked him, OK, what DO you recommend? He then said... "just about any router by Lynksys is good", so I am not ditching the Apple routers for the DL32R units just yet, until after I ditch the DL32R and DC16. I connected a really cheap six year old Netgear router to the Yamaha TF mixer, and while it is occasionally losing connection just sitting here, it is far more reliable than the Apple Airport Express. I also read a long time ago that for instance, an iPad could likely receive an even better Wi-Fi connection if it wasn't sitting so dang close to the router. Kinda like expecting phenomenal radio signal for a radio station sitting in your car at the base of the transmitting tower. Maybe that's not a good analogy but, as the teenage girls say these days....

Whut....ever!!!

So, should I get an ASUS something.... or just go with the one you suggested? I can not find the RAX35 on Walmart's site.
Thanks for your help and the detailed information about streaming video signals, but as you say, we don't need that for our purposes.   

[WK154]

Well a rolling stone gathers no moss, hello Yamaha! Reverb is a good place to sell your AXIS system. Since I eventually had to pick up a Netgear AX4 anyways I picked one up at my local Walmart Superstore about 4 hrs. ago. Will let you know how that works out. The problem your describing should not be even at a close proximity. Here is the link for the Netgear:
  https://www.walmart.com/ip/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-AX4-4-Stream-AX3000-Wi-Fi-6-Router-RAX35-100NAS/760226420?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227314015343&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=391952074786&wl4=aud-430887228898:pla-831270607801&wl5=9031169&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=760226420&veh=sem&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI99u79riL6AIVlONkCh1TzgUQEAYYASABEgIv-_D_BwE
My first impression is that its kinda flimsy especially the no-removable antennas. I forget which Airport you have, the Express or the Extreme? That link should be the same no mater what its attached to. I'll look at it later. My only digital Yamaha I had experience with was the PM5D.
Cheers.

P.S. Can you set your DL32R near the Yamaha and since we are talking about moving one cable see if the same results is with the DL32R. This would eliminate the setup and leave things with Yamaha.

[dpdan]

thank you for the link...
I am waiting for Yamaha tech support to call me back shortly.

I can only use up to three iPads with the Yamaha mixer running StageMix, Mackie (up to twenty)
I have four iPads, two of which are gen 5 and two are gen 6, all running the latest iOS 13.3.1.

What is confusing to me is that one of the gen 5 iPads is solid, no disconnects.
Certainly I don't have three defective iPads, and here's how I know...
Yamaha also has a second app to allow musicians to run their own mix on their phones or iPads and
this "Monitor Mix" app runs flawlessly on all four iPads simultaneously. Up to ten devices can use Monitor Mix.
Yamaha also has a third app for computers, Mac and Windows and it is called TF Editor, it too runs absolutely flawless without any disconnects whatsoever.... all of these
descriptions above are the same regardless of the router I use,,, three different Airport Express routers, one Airport Extreme and even an old Netgear. All perfect, but not the StageMix app.

I will come back shortly and report what Yamaha tells me.

Thanks WK!

[dpdan]

OK, I just got off the phone with Yamaha tech support which is nothing short of FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually read to him the previous post to this one, that I had just made here describing my dilemma in detail,
he immediately figured out why the StageMix app was constantly disconnecting...
it turns out that ONLY ONE StageMix app can run at a time.

The system can run up to ten Monitor Mix apps, including one StageMix and one instance of TF Editor for computer.

So, I do not need to buy a new router for this Yamaha TF mixer. I will continue to use my Apple routers till they DIE! or Apple creates an iOS "UPDATE" that will forever KILL their routers:) Maybe they will outlast me.

I apologize for all the time you wasted on this stuff, all it took is for one youtube video to lead me to believe that I could run three instances of StageMix simultaneously,,, but NOPE.

 

[Yorgaki1]

Update:

Good news: I've used the Nighthawk Ax4 router for 2 gigs without any problems. Seems to be rock solid without any noticeable disconnections. It takes a bit longer to bootup compared to the AE. I've got a bunch of outdoor summer festivals booked, kicking off in May. Hopefully all will work well with a few thousand cell phones in close proximity. Hopefully the virus wont screw up the coming festival season to much.

Also, I sold my old ipad that was giving me fits with the fader response issues I was having. (Got $100 for it, which I thought was decent) I took your advise and picked up the brand new ipad 10.2" 7th gen (late 2019) for $239 from my local microcenter which is close by. Those stores are unbelievable. Next gig is on the 21st.

Thanks for the recommendations!

[WK154]

Dan I thought that the control limitation might be the problem. Glad you found it. Not like the Mackie with 20 cooks in the kitchen. I am sending this via the AX4 and it was definitely slow with DHCP and other tasks such as firmware updates. Patience is required with this one. The response otherwise seems to be good. A little early to weed out other issues and I expect some additional firmware updates down the road. I will be testing this for a while.

[WK154]

Update:

Good news: I've used the Nighthawk Ax4 router for 2 gigs without any problems. Seems to be rock solid without any noticeable disconnections. It takes a bit longer to bootup compared to the AE. I've got a bunch of outdoor summer festivals booked, kicking off in May. Hopefully all will work well with a few thousand cell phones in close proximity. Hopefully the virus wont screw up the coming festival season to much.

Also, I sold my old ipad that was giving me fits with the fader response issues I was having. (Got $100 for it, which I thought was decent) I took your advise and picked up the brand new ipad 10.2" 7th gen (late 2019) for $239 from my local microcenter which is close by. Those stores are unbelievable. Next gig is on the 21st.

Thanks for the recommendations!

Glad everything worked out for you. Netgears is usually on top of things and have never disappointed. Expect some more firmware updates and this is for all AX products and not just Netgear.

[WK154]

Dan which TF did you pick up? Yes your decision to stay with your current routers is fine. When you do run into traffic issues you have a way out for a while.

[dpdan]

TF Rack,
(1) Tio1608-D which is a 2U external audio Dante stage box,
and a Dante card for the TF Rack.
That gives me 32 inputs and about 24 outputs,
without sounding sarcastic,

it will be nice to not have to send audio to the right main output and crank the level to full blast including distortion, just to create enough resistance in the ribbon cable connection then,  turn down, and unmute the mains, after that parade of shenanigans, (which is common practice at every job) the right channel will work for the rest of the gig without any problem.

 

[WK154]

OK, I just got off the phone with Yamaha tech support which is nothing short of FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually read to him the previous post to this one, that I had just made here describing my dilemma in detail,
he immediately figured out why the StageMix app was constantly disconnecting...
it turns out that ONLY ONE StageMix app can run at a time.

The system can run up to ten Monitor Mix apps, including one StageMix and one instance of TF Editor for computer.

So, I do not need to buy a new router for this Yamaha TF mixer. I will continue to use my Apple routers till they DIE! or Apple creates an iOS "UPDATE" that will forever KILL their routers:) Maybe they will outlast me.

I apologize for all the time you wasted on this stuff, all it took is for one youtube video to lead me to believe that I could run three instances of StageMix simultaneously,,, but NOPE.

I was looking at Yamaha's TF Editor description here  https://usa.yamaha.com/products/proaudio/software/tfeditor/index.html    and their claim is "Up to three devices running TF Editor or StageMix can be connected at the same time." Well since I have no way to verify this but you do, they can't both be right and Yamaha needs to fix that.

[dpdan]

Hi WK,
Happy Memorial day to you and your Sweet Adeline Not sure if I ever told you that I do all the recording, editing and mixing for World Champions The Ambassadors of Harmony here ins St. Louis Missouri, but because of the stupid COVID, nobody is singing together, this virus has caused every one of my booked jobs to be cancelled or rescheduled to next year.   

So, the TF mixer can use one instance of Stagemix which is the FOH app, which only runs on an iPad or an Android tablet, then the TF can also be simultaneously controlled by a computer program called TF Editor and finally, up to (I believe) ten Monitor Mix apps on tablets or phones.