Devices not wanting to stay connected to MasterFader 5.0

[WK154]

Wow the devil is really in the details and playing his fiddle in Georgia  The problem is simply too many cooks in the kitchen and the timing was not in your favor. The DL16S was bought before the M32 Midas (a replacement for a far less capable analog board) and splitters were there as well AFAIK. Instead of kludging things any more it's time to reassess your setup. I still haven't a clue as to what in-ears you have (wired, wireless). I know from the video that there are at least 4 wireless and some wired mics including three choir mics.  The acoustics from what I see are highly reflective and I don't know the depth of the church but a full choir and congregation will help that. A capable audio consultant should have given the church some guidance. I have seen too many churches where the sound system and acoustics just grew as money became available, no overall design just suggestions from homegrown experts. COVID-19 will be gone hopefully soon but your sound problem won't until you correct it. The Midas has all the capability that you will need with some additions for the in-ears. Ultranet in-ear equipment (Behringer) will quiet the complaints to the FOH guy. Sorry I know I'm suggesting eliminating your job, but you now can play your guitar without playing monitor sound guy as well. Stage amps, splitters and monitors need to go (more room less stage noise and mic bleed). I won't go into the speaker system placement, suffice it to say it needs work. That's all the bad news for now. The problem the church faces is the budget for this and a professional design. It takes thousand of $ in test equipment and software to do this right, not something that a church would want to invest in. Almost forgot the main ingredient, someone skilled to use the tools and knows sound design. Beware of the "golden ears" variety.

[JCClemmo]

Hey WK!
       Sorry for the long delay, My Dad has been in the hospital, but that's another long story. You couldn't possible have nailed our situation any more correct. My friend that I had come look at the church also mentioned the speakers and their arrangement. The guy the church insisted on using said the speaker were fine. I'm an idiot on this stuff, but even I knew better than that. I greatly appreciate all the help you guys have given. The unit since the first post has actually been connecting pretty good to peoples devices and doing a good job. I still would love to figure out how to make the L and R just two different monitor mixes but I guess I'll just have to stumble on to it, I know I'm just missing something somewhere. I do know this, I wish I were set up to record what I hear in my monitors (Which is a very cheap but decent Audio2000 cordless unit) Our Youtube presence would sound A LOT different.

[dpdan]

I still would love to figure out how to make the L and R just two different monitor mixes but I guess I'll just have to stumble on to it

you won't stumble across how to use the main left/right for two separate monitor mixes because it can't be done properly.
HOWEVER... the L/R can be used for two different monitor mixes, BUT....  BUT.... many things will not be separate,
equalizers, compressors, gates, will all be the same for both L & R output channels.

For instance, there is only one master fader for the Main left right which means both mixes will have to share the master.
The only way to get two separate mixes is to use the pan slider to set which channels go left, and which channels go right.
If you try this... make absolute sure that all your monitor mixes are set to PRE fader.


The correct answer for your problem is to sell your mixer on eBay, get what you can for it and then buy a mixer with more mix outputs like the DL32S.

[WK154]

I hope your dad is fine and home. This is where Dan and I disagree. Based on the overall equipment array that you have, yes you need to sell your DL16s and turn to the M32 strengths namely Ultranet. The monitor system based on it will solve more of your problems than any separate mixer just for IEM's. Yes you will have to learn the mixer and it's subsystems but it will be worth it. As to the speaker system without boots on the ground and little information I can only generalize. The subs are actually fine where they are but the JBL's flown on either side need to be center hung at the congregation not at the walls or back. Neither places have ears just a lot of reflections. Delay ability is essential for this which the M32 has. I haven't gone thru the costs but in the long run it's the better choice IMHO.

[dpdan]

I completely agree with WK in his last post about everything he said.

Learning the ropes of the M32 makes far more sense, especially if you're new to sound.

[JCClemmo]

Thanks so much for all your help gentlemen I greatly appreciate it. I'll talk to everyone involved and give them your suggestions. The idea of me being completely out of the equation and just worrying about what I do, sounds like a great idea!

[WK154]

At times one needs to step back from the trees and look at the forest for clarity. Such is this case. The M32 is overkill for your application, let me explain. The 8 in-ears that you are looking for are easily handled by the M32 without breaking a sweat. It has 20 available aux outputs. Once you have removed and possibly sold the mic splitters, Dl16s and stage monitors and other stage noise sources you will have ample funds to buy P2's from Behringer ($35 each). The in-ear's should be a personal item for each performer and covered by them. They can range from $20 to $800 plus a visit to an Audiologist to give you an idea. I am assuming that the prior analog mixers cabling is still in good condition and can be used. The FOH "head explosion" can be handled by allowing the complainers to adjust their own mix via the app on their phone or tablet. Two people learning the M32 would be the minimum in any case. You will need a robust router such as the AX4 in any case ($120). If you need the more traditional hands on then look at the Ultranet solution. A four unit set runs about $1400 from B&H and others. Hope this helps
Cheers

[dpdan]

whoever sold and installed the M32 to the church should be able to assist you with all of this...

[WK154]

Like most of this it has been one surprise after another and always a lack of info. Could be mail-ordered. 

P.S. Did we just sentence JC to two years of U-Tube viewings. 

[JCClemmo]

Ha ha! you probably have. Do the two stage boxes for the M32 support ...... I just realized that was a stupid question. I think the main problem here, as bad as I hate to say it is lack of knowledge of the M32.

[WK154]

You don't need anything other than what I described above and you'll be using about half the M32 mixer based on mics, instruments and performers headcount. It would be good if your FOH guy contact us if you need additional help.
There is one major advantage with the Ultranet approach in that the performers can only affect their own mix never FOH or others.

[WK154]

To help you with some of U-Tube info try Drew Brasher's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOoo9XExoQ4) and MusicansPro Sean Thomas and of course Behringer/Midas. A word of caution V4 firmware changed a lot so keep that in mind as you observe these webcasts and training videos. Although a lot remained the same some major sections changed. Last thing you need is to learn the old V3 stuff that changed. The X32 and M32 are very close in operations. Most differences are hardware like look, faders, buttons and preamps. I am assuming that the M32 is current.

[JCClemmo]

I know what your talking about there. The FOH guy was trying to run the cordless mics down to the left stage box so I could run them into the DL16, but he said the firmware update made such a change he couldnt figure out how to do it. I dont know that we have the know how to set up the Ultranet setup. Knowledge, information and training are obviously key here. I will turn our FOH guy onto all this information along with watching it myself.

[WK154]

OK another surprise, talk about more overkill. I think at this point we need a list of your equipment (name and model at minimum) and your physical hookups and certainly some pics of the area, FOH included so we can get a better idea of what we're up against.
What I can gather at this time is that your church has a M32 and two DL16 stage boxes (very confusing not Mackie) as the main system. Who sold you this and what help if any can they offer? It would behoove you to find someone local with experience to bring you up to speed on this gear. Routing which was upgraded in V4 seems to be your main problem. There are U-Tube videos to explain V4 changes available. Google will be your friend.

[WK154]

JC you may want to watch Drew's routing video for V4 X32/M32.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBnuuPCnGTQ
Cheers