Author Topic: Mackies and ethernet cable  (Read 312 times)

Weogo

  • Knight
  • ****
  • Location: Western North Carolina
  • Posts: 163
Mackies and ethernet cable
« on: April 19, 2021, 03:59:35 PM »
Hi Folks,

    I actually have three gigs on the books!

    I had a gig where the wireless was flaky at a longer distance, so
want the hardwired option at FOH if needed.
    I currently have a 100' long ethernet cable for connecting an
Ipad to a DL mixer through a Rebotnix RB-Connect:
 https://rebotnix.com/rb-connect/
The 100' cable is made from un-shielded, not grounded, 24ga, Cat5E, Quabbin 5700:
https://www.quabbin.com/products/harsh-environment-cable/ethernet/cat-5e/5700

    For where this cable will be used I don't think super-rugged cable will be needed.

    For one of the upcoming gigs a longer ethernet cable is needed, about 150'.
)  Does shielding add significant benefit?
)  Would the cable optimally be grounded at the mixer end, and not the other?
)  Does the cable need to be four-pairs, or can two-pair cable be used?
)  What I'm looking at is two-pair, shielded  24ga, Cat5E, Quabbin 5023:
 https://www.quabbin.com/search/node/5023
Or the 26ga version of the same cable, 5085.
Would either of these be a good choice?
Or are four-pairs needed, something like 5045?
)  Or what's a better choice?

Thanks and good health,  Weogo

WK154

  • Door #3
  • Master
  • *****
  • Location: Valencia CA
  • Posts: 2611
Re: Mackies and ethernet cable
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2021, 06:14:20 PM »
First some basics. Shielded cable has higher capacitance and for longer cables will reduce signal strength and quality. At a 150 feet you should be OK and the shield should handle RF issues as well. I would also recommend Cat6 since it has a tighter control over twists than Cat 5E providing a better matched twisted pair. There are also lots of cheap CCA or CCE (copper clad aluminum/Ethernet) cables to stay away from. Here is a ready to go cable without the hassle of making your own (connectors are tricky and if not done right will degrade the cable).
https://www.amazon.com/Maximm-Cat6-Snagless-Ethernet-Cable/dp/B071GD2BNS/ref=sr_1_74_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=cat%2B6e&qid=1618854985&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_three_browse-bin%3A7070225011&rnid=5462369011&s=pc&sr=1-74-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExRlFZQ04xV1EyQjVRJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjIwOTM2MlhINFFVTzZNRUlTOCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTY5MzQ3MlhTQjZLS0JXUjk0MSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0Zl9uZXh0JmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1
Lots of colors to choose from as well.
Cheers
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 05:56:18 PM by WK154 »
When in doubt KISS

Weogo

  • Knight
  • ****
  • Location: Western North Carolina
  • Posts: 163
Re: Mackies and ethernet cable
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2021, 02:29:31 AM »
Hi WK,

    Thanks for the information and link, looks like a good deal on that cable.

    One of the things I like about the Quabbin cables is most of the wire used is tin-coated.
I'll see what they have in Cat6.

    If I go with two-pair cable, do I just use the four center slots on the connectors?

Thanks and good health,  Weogo

WK154

  • Door #3
  • Master
  • *****
  • Location: Valencia CA
  • Posts: 2611
Re: Mackies and ethernet cable
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2021, 07:05:35 AM »
Tin coating won't help here and unless you have pro cable connector tools I'd advise against it. The untwisted length in the connector must be very short and with the ready made cable you'll get all four pairs and and no shield. On the DL's end the shield is tied to ground which is what you want for shielded cable.
Cheers
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 05:54:54 PM by WK154 »
When in doubt KISS

Weogo

  • Knight
  • ****
  • Location: Western North Carolina
  • Posts: 163
Re: Mackies and ethernet cable
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2021, 02:43:29 PM »
Hi WK,

    I will have a pro installing the cable ends.

    From Mackie and looking online I got this for wiring two-pair cable:
1 orange white
2 orange
3 blue white
6 blue
  https://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/ethernetcables.html

    Are you saying the cable shield should be tied to ground only at the one end, at the mixer?

Thanks and good health,  Weogo

WK154

  • Door #3
  • Master
  • *****
  • Location: Valencia CA
  • Posts: 2611
Re: Mackies and ethernet cable
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2021, 05:45:59 PM »
Just like the audio cables at minimum at the mixer end , both would be better. I don't have any info on your Rebotnix regarding shield (at the connector) it may pass shield continuity and I have no idea about your cable to the iPad. They may all be shielded which would be good. Unless you are in a high RF or magnetic field environment the UTP will be more than sufficient and also less expensive allowing 2 cables ($60) for one custom made.
Cheers

P.S. It might be good for you to review the grounding issues with the DL1608 that haven't gone away.  http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=383.msg2533#msg2533
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 06:25:14 PM by WK154 »
When in doubt KISS

Weogo

  • Knight
  • ****
  • Location: Western North Carolina
  • Posts: 163
Re: Mackies and ethernet cable
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2021, 03:17:16 AM »
Hi WK,

    I ended up going with Quabbin SF/UTP 5919 which is Cat6A, four pair, 26ga.
Ended up with 175'.
It has a very tough outer jacket in production black, and still coils nicely in the hand:
 https://www.quabbin.com/products/harsh-environment-cable-digital-av-lighting-control-cable/ethernet/cat-6a/5919
The connectors are grounded at both ends.
Again, thanks for the Cat6 recommendation.
  Also thanks to John, Kyle and Ted.

   My DL1608 has always been quiet.  Also the DL32R and DL16S.
I still like the DL1608 with an old Ipad-3 docked in it for small gig and conference work  - 
no router, etc. needed.

Thanks and good health,  Weogo

WK154

  • Door #3
  • Master
  • *****
  • Location: Valencia CA
  • Posts: 2611
Re: Mackies and ethernet cable
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2021, 07:42:05 PM »
Hi Weogo,
Out of curiosity what did you cable run you ($). You also never stated which DL was giving you disconnects, since you have quite a collection of DL's. Based on your explanation of the configuration and use it's not the DL1608. The DL16S internal wireless is well known for such issues. The DL16S/DL32R using a external modem would be dependent on the performance of the WiFi products. As an aside don't expect the cable to be current too long since before you have problems other than physical damage you'll be replacing it with fiber. Not that fiber is anything new to the audio field (ADAT, SP/DIF).
Cheers
When in doubt KISS

Weogo

  • Knight
  • ****
  • Location: Western North Carolina
  • Posts: 163
Re: Mackies and ethernet cable
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2021, 12:27:39 AM »
Hi WK,

    Online the 5919 is $1.15 per foot when you buy 1000'.
I know a supplier who had an offcut as a one-off deal.

    The disconnect was with an external router, in an arena, and I was at least 150' away.
Everything was fine through two soundchecks.  It was after the audience came in with thousands of
cell phones that I occasinonally had to walk down from FOH to about 75' from the router to have a good connection.

    I only trust the DL16S and similar mixers with installed WiFi for system testing and tiny gigs.
As a backup I have the little Rebotnix unit and a 6' ethernet cable.  And a spare tablet.

    Fiber's great for no ground loops.  And light.  And can go
quite a distance, depending on exactly what is being used.
Years ago I had an ICRON USB-over-fiber extender connecting a laptop to an 01V96.
And the 01V96 had optical ADAT in/out for the extra external mic pres and outputs.
Copper can do POE and be used for four-channel snakes with the XLR break-in/out boxes.
Whatever works for you sounds good to me!

    The gig in two weeks will be on the DL32R because the extra outputs will be needed.
If I wanted to use my 4-in, eight out DSP the DL16S would be fine.
    I was doing quite a few shows on the DL16S before shows stopped and am
pretty amazed at what all can be done with such a little box.

Thanks and good health,  Weogo