Author Topic: Question About Vocal Reverb  (Read 2210 times)

ChiroVette

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Question About Vocal Reverb
« on: July 14, 2022, 01:11:03 AM »
Hey all!

Okay, I am a musician, not a sound man. Yes, I can get sound to come out of channels, and make them sound reasonably good to my ear and my audience when I mix for my live shows, but I really am not good at this at all, nor do I really aspire to be. I am so n00bish, I couldn't even really follow along with a lot of the Youtube instructional videos, where the guy was flying through adjusting gates and compressions and effects on various instruments. I couldn't even really hear the difference between his "before and after" stuff on various drum tracks when he added EQ on effects, and on kicks and snares and toms.

So I have decent equipment. PRX612 tops on 618XLF subs, and am using a Mackie 1608. Like I said, overall, I love the Mackie, and how easy most of the mixing is, and a lot of the features, but I am completely clueless with effects, compression, gating, and so on.

But to start off with, I would REALLY love to get some decent reverb and perhaps a little delay from the 1608 for vocals. I figure that's the place to start off. I can worry about instruments later, lol if at all!

But I really haven't been able to get decent vocal reverb from the 1608, and I am quite sure it's my fault and inexperience. There certainly seem to be enough settings. Whenever I play with the reverb it sounds like really "springy" and obnoxious. Not even sure if springy is the right word. But I find the verb on the vox to either be too overpowering and oppressive or just not very pleasant when I dial it back enough to not sound "nasty".

Can you folks please recommend some Reverb presets that might be at least good starting points for vox? Maybe some light delay/slapback as well? Though I am more concerned about reverb. I know presets have the rep of being crappy, so if not presets, do any of you have some reverb settings for vox that I can copy if you post all the relevant sliders/settings/choices to use?

Thanks again!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 01:13:18 AM by ChiroVette »

DigtheDL

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Re: Question About Vocal Reverb
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2022, 09:44:38 PM »
Here's the setting we use for the lead vocalist in a rock band on our DL1608 in a small, kind of dead, room.

Setting:  Medium Room
Pre Delay:  96.4 ms
Decay:  1.57 sec
HF Damping:  12.22 kHz
LF Damping;   Off/20.0 Hz

Channel Send: -13.9 dB
Reverb Master is low at -33.4 dB  It has vocal and some percussion in it
We also EQ the Reverb Master channel and take out a lot (not all) below 3K


I don't think we've tailored any of the "Advanced" setting but I'm not sure.

We also use a delay setting with the reverb.

Hope this helps you get started.


ChiroVette

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Re: Question About Vocal Reverb
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2022, 01:40:55 AM »
Here's the setting we use for the lead vocalist in a rock band on our DL1608 in a small, kind of dead, room.


Thank you VERY MUCH! That should be a good starting point, particularly if someone more experience than me, like yourself, is using that. I am going to try them tomorrow when I am messing around with the mixer and some settings. I will post here how things go.

If anyone else wants to post their settings and pre-sets, I am more than happy to try them as well! :)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2022, 01:42:58 AM by ChiroVette »

ChiroVette

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Re: Question About Vocal Reverb
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2022, 09:00:14 PM »
Hey, sorry, I have to bump this because I have a few questions I am a little unclear on for your settings suggestions.

Here's the setting we use for the lead vocalist in a rock band on our DL1608 in a small, kind of dead, room.

Setting:  Medium Room
Pre Delay:  96.4 ms
Decay:  1.57 sec
HF Damping:  12.22 kHz
LF Damping;   Off/20.0 Hz

Okay, cool, got all this. Simple edits in the app.


Channel Send: -13.9 dB
Reverb Master is low at -33.4 dB  It has vocal and some percussion in it

Here is where I am getting a little fuzzy!

First off, and this is really confusing me, when I am in the Reverb Channel trying to edit, I have two faders that both adjust together, meaning what I do to one, the other follows along. It seems like that fader is the main Reverb Channel volume. Is that what you mean by Reverb Master Channel above? Is that the one you are setting to -33.4 db?

Because, and this brings me to my second question, I now have access to a third fader, independent of the above two. It is called "Send", so is that the one you are setting to -13.9db?

Also, why don't I have access to that send in the main Reverb channel? Unless that is only adjusting the reverb to the ONE channel, say one of the vocal channels or one of the other instruments like a drum? Because I noticed that when I adjust the Reverb's own channel fader in "All" which corresponds to the small right fader in the reverb channel or the reverb effect in any channel it adjusts that fader in every single channel, including the Reverb channel. (Jeeze, I can't even describe this right, it's so confusing to me!).

BUT when I adjust the "send" to the top left (just right of where I chose "Medium Room", it seems to ONLY adjust that slider in the ONE channel, and not across the mixer. (How the hell do you guys figure all this out, by the way? I am lost. lol)


We also EQ the Reverb Master channel and take out a lot (not all) below 3K

Okay, I tried to at least follow the spirit of this one, but I am lost. I assume you meant taking out a couple of DBs from ALL the frequency at and below 3K? So I tried to do this by making the 4th band static at exactly 3K, so nothing above that is effected, and then taking out say 1 or 2 DBs under 3K across the board, say from 100Hz to 3K? But since only two of the bands (1 and 4) can be set for shelf or Bell, I can't see how to do this.

Edit: Okay, assuming I am near what you are suggesting here, I think I was just able to do this! I had the HPF overlapping with the first band, but when I separated Band 1 from the HPF, I was able to take out any variable number of DB's from 100 HZ to 3K by placing the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, bands all together right on 3K all at 0 DB. So now, simply by sliding up and down on Band 1, I can take out whatever I want globally from that huge frequency range. lol Why do I have the feeling that this isn't even close to what you are suggesting, though?
 
I don't think we've tailored any of the "Advanced" setting but I'm not sure.

Good, a little less complex works for me. :)

We also use a delay setting with the reverb.

I don't know what you mean by this? The only delay setting I see on the Reverb is the "Pre Delay" unless you are saying that you use the delay effect lightly in conjunction with the reverb effect?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2022, 09:04:05 PM by ChiroVette »

DigtheDL

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Re: Question About Vocal Reverb
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2022, 06:25:30 AM »
Just to clarify I'm running 4.6.2, hope you at too.

Your description of the reverb faders is exactly right.  Just to summarize.  The reverb "Send" fader on the specific channel for our vocalist is set at -13.9db, it's on the left side of the page.  This is the fader that adjusts how much of that channel is going to the Reverb buss.  It's appropriate for many channels to be feeding the reverb buss.  Also on the channel Reverb page you will see a fader on the right hand side that shows the status of the Reverb return that allows how much that buss feeds the main mix.   On the main page with all the channels it's the first fader after the iPad fader and is labeled "Reverb", we have ours set at -33.4db.  Both the fader on the right hand side of the channel reverb and the reverb fader on the main page will move together as they are the same fader, just two different locations to adjust it.  But all of these fader settings are really dependent on so may things.  Adjust each it as you feel is appropriate for your mix and situation.

I think you have the EQ part right.  How you're cutting it will work good for vocals.  If you have some drums in the reverb buss you may want to add a little back in-between 100hz and 500hz.  You can do that using the different bands.

My delay comment just meant that on vocals we have both reverb and delay.  Experiment with different delay setting.  Lots of good tutorials on YouTube but they may not be DL1608 specific.

Hope this helps.

ChiroVette

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Re: Question About Vocal Reverb
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2022, 03:01:02 PM »
Just to clarify I'm running 4.6.2, hope you at too.

Yeah that's the version I am using. I wanted to upgrade to ver. 5.xxx, but I have two iPads, one is brand new and the other is 11 years old (lol an iPad 3) that still works. The old iPad won't run ver. 5, and I can't have two different versions of MF running on two iPads, so since I am using a DL1608 and really don't benefit from most of the upgrades to 5 like the other more elaborate mixers, I would rather be able to have the option of docking my iPad 3 and using the new one on WiFi.

Your description of the reverb faders is exactly right.  Just to summarize.  The reverb "Send" fader on the specific channel for our vocalist is set at -13.9db, it's on the left side of the page.  This is the fader that adjusts how much of that channel is going to the Reverb buss.  It's appropriate for many channels to be feeding the reverb buss.  Also on the channel Reverb page you will see a fader on the right hand side that shows the status of the Reverb return that allows how much that buss feeds the main mix.   On the main page with all the channels it's the first fader after the iPad fader and is labeled "Reverb", we have ours set at -33.4db.  Both the fader on the right hand side of the channel reverb and the reverb fader on the main page will move together as they are the same fader, just two different locations to adjust it.  But all of these fader settings are really dependent on so may things.  Adjust each it as you feel is appropriate for your mix and situation.

I think you have the EQ part right.  How you're cutting it will work good for vocals.  If you have some drums in the reverb buss you may want to add a little back in-between 100hz and 500hz.  You can do that using the different bands.

My delay comment just meant that on vocals we have both reverb and delay.  Experiment with different delay setting.  Lots of good tutorials on YouTube but they may not be DL1608 specific.

Hope this helps.

I won't be putting drums in the PA any time soon, unless I do sound for one of my pickup gigs in a band, but I almost never do. When I jump into those gigs, they either have a sound man or communal, band PA. I used to use my PA and this mixer for bands, but lately I have taken to doing what I have affectionately dubbed Guitaraoke, where I have a bunch of heavily edited backing tracks, where I even added all the vocal harmonies myself multi-tracking them in my DAW, so I can do all these sounding like a full band. But the backing track .mp4s which I use these days to play live, are on my laptop, and I have one of those stereo U-Phioria USB/XLR processor that is pretty amazing for such a cheap device. I put that into channel 16 and 17, and I don't use ANY effects or even EQ on it.

I think that because I am not a sound man, I tend to like the reverb heavier than your settings, BUT I have to say that using your settings as a base is amazing, and the best reverb I ever heard through this mixer. I have really good PA gear, though, all JBL's PRX series with two of the big 18" JBL XLF subs and good matching wedge monitors. My problem, not being a sound man, is I like the reverb a little heavier than most of you sound guys. But using your settings as my starting point is perfect, because I can just raise either the send or the main reverb up a little. I don't like crazy reverb, but I do like to hear it.

I will add some delay, but my problem with delay is that it is harder to add just a subtle amount the way you can with Reverb. With delay, I find it is either completely in my face or I really don't hear it at all. But maybe my next live gig I will see if it sounds different with the PA at live volume levels.

I will say that I decided to turn off all the compression and gating because I really have no clue what to even do with either of them, and am not convinced that with my level of knowledge (or lack thereof) I am doing myself any favors with compression and gating. Then again, I am not playing Metal or grunge, and nobody is screaming into the mic or playing guitars at ear-blistering volumes. So my guess is I don't even really need it.

I am going to try to figure out how to gate my guitar amp. I play with mostly a single coil sound, through a Fender, and man the 60 cycle hum can get obnoxious when I am not playing. Once I start playing, it becomes inaudible obviously.

By the way, speaking of an annoying "hum", your EQ suggestion took out a weird sort of "aftertaste" from the reverb. Notching out a couple of DB's from 100 all the way to 3K took away most of that weird, springy noise the verb was making.

For right now, I have been leaving the parametric EQ completely flat, unless a vocalist specifically asks me for more/less high end, more/less mid-range, or whatever. I had one singer who asked me to notch out 800 Hz, which I did, and he gave me a huge thumbs up. Meanwhile I literally heard NO DIFFERENCE, which means it's probably best for me to stay far away from any EQ changes until I have an actual clue or someone asks me for some specific change.  :lol:
« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 03:07:43 PM by ChiroVette »