DL1608 with QSC K12 and KSUB

[Harpman]

I know a lot of you have this configuration.  I was using my Behringer B212D's prior to the K12's.  I would run the B212D's thru the mains and the KSUB thru AUX6.  There is one reason I do that.  No matter what type of crossover you have, running the mains thru the KSUB and to the K12 or B212 as tops, you still end up with some frequencies that don't need to be in the sub at all.  If I run the sub thru AUX6, I have full control over what instruments I want in the sub at all. I'm open for ideas if anyone can convince me otherwise.

[Jerrylee]

No arguments here. You are doing exactly what you should be doing.

There are lots of reasons aux 6 works better. Sonically it sounds better but there are other reasons too.  What if you need to boost the bass some? With the aux 6 method you just raise the fader. With the through setup you need to turn up the volume on the speaker itself. I would rather us the board to do this then having to go over to my speakers every time. I use 2 subs myself and if I didn't use the aux 6 method then I would have to go to 2 subs and raise them both up. Separate sides of the stage. Fighting to get around equipment. I used to do it that way. With the aux 6 setup I just turn up the volume with my aux 6 fader. Easy breezy. Imagine your just running sound. And you are out front. With the through method you have to go back to the stage to adjust the subs to change the bass. Sometimes people say things are too loud and usually that's not coming from the subs. It's the highs that tear through people. With the aux 6 method you can also turn down the tops and leave the bass alone. And vice versa.

Its very nice to have control over what goes into the subs. The subs will be more efficient regardless of their built in crossover. A lot of people like to remove vocals from subs. I like to add a little in for some warmth. With the through method you have to use the eqs to do this. With aux 6 method you can just bring a little vocals back into the subs. I leave the eqs to polish the final sound, not to control my speakers.

[RoadRanger]

I know a lot of you have this configuration.  I was using my Behringer B212D's prior to the K12's.  I would run the B212D's thru the mains and the KSUB thru AUX6.  There is one reason I do that.  No matter what type of crossover you have, running the mains thru the KSUB and to the K12 or B212 as tops, you still end up with some frequencies that don't need to be in the sub at all.  If I run the sub thru AUX6, I have full control over what instruments I want in the sub at all. I'm open for ideas if anyone can convince me otherwise.

You still need a crossover for the tops somewhere. The K12's have an internal one that can be switched on - the B212D's don't so need an external one.

[Jerrylee]

Rr the b212s have a high and low eq that works well as a crossover. Just turn down the low. Or of course just use the 31 bad eq as a pseudo crossover. So you don't really need one. And you can only use the aux 6 method if you want to use the 31 band eq crossover option.

Sorry to say this but the b212d's are definitely a high end speaker. The places where they would be used as mains probably wouldn't care about if there are crossovers or not. Gio I'm sure you're glad you switched to the k12s. I have the b210d's and they make great monitors. Especially for the price. I also have k10s and k12s for monitors and they are night and day. I have had to use a b210d with a k12 as mains once at a gig because one of my k12s went out. It worked ok but was a huge tonal difference.

[RoadRanger]

And you can only use the aux 6 method if you want to use the 31 band eq crossover option.

You don't need that if you are using subs and tops that have crossovers built-in like the QSC "K" series.

[Jerrylee]

I'm talking about the b212s. If you want to use the 31 band eq as a crossover you need to use the aux 6 method.

Even if you have the k12s and want to use the 31 band eq as a crossover you need to use the aux 6 method. Not saying you want to do this with the k12s, but if you did...

[Harpman]

Rr the b212s have a high and low eq that works well as a crossover. Just turn down the low. Or of course just use the 31 bad eq as a pseudo crossover. So you don't really need one. And you can only use the aux 6 method if you want to use the 31 band eq crossover option.

Sorry to say this but the b212d's are definitely a high end speaker. The places where they would be used as mains probably wouldn't care about if there are crossovers or not. Gio I'm sure you're glad you switched to the k12s. I have the b210d's and they make great monitors. Especially for the price. I also have k10s and k12s for monitors and they are night and day. I have had to use a b210d with a k12 as mains once at a gig because one of my k12s went out. It worked ok but was a huge tonal difference.

JL, I use Behringer F1320D's for the floor monitors. Due to venue space issues, I went with the B205D's. They are plain crap! Glad I purchased the K12's. I'm doing sound for the Brewer Boys (X-Factor fame) tomorrow and trying the K12's then. I'll let you know how it goes. 

[sam.spoons]

I used a pair of K12's with the DL on an outdoor acoustic "stage" last weekend (no sub). Highly impressed and very tempted to bash the wallet if I can raise the cash

[Harpman]

And you can only use the aux 6 method if you want to use the 31 band eq crossover option.

You don't need that if you are using subs and tops that have crossovers built-in like the QSC "K" series.

Sorry RR. I think my question in the other thread was answered here.

[Harpman]

And you can only use the aux 6 method if you want to use the 31 band eq crossover option.

You don't need that if you are using subs and tops that have crossovers built-in like the QSC "K" series.

Do you have any idea what the crossover points are on the K12's are when you which to EXT SUB? Would be good information to know.  I use to use a Behringer LMS crossover when I had my analog board, but haven't used it since I purchased the DL1608. I know comparing the K12's to the B212D's isn't even a comparison at all. The K12's have a tonal quality that the B212D's will never have.

[RoadRanger]

I used a pair of K12's with the DL on an outdoor acoustic "stage" last weekend (no sub). Highly impressed and very tempted to bash the wallet if I can raise the cash

IMO the RCF 312a is just as good and considerably less expensive. I love my RCF 310a's. I once used them outdoors to cover 1000, I was told they sounded fine 1/2 mile away. Of course they were solidly in the red .

[Harpman]

And you can only use the aux 6 method if you want to use the 31 band eq crossover option.

You don't need that if you are using subs and tops that have crossovers built-in like the QSC "K" series.

Do you have any idea what the crossover points are on the K12's are when you which to EXT SUB? Would be good information to know.  I use to use a Behringer LMS crossover when I had my analog board, but haven't used it since I purchased the DL1608. I know comparing the K12's to the B212D's isn't even a comparison at all. The K12's have a tonal quality that the B212D's will never have.

Looks like EXT SUB would set the crossover at 100HZ, Normal (80)? or Deep ??

[Harpman]

I used a pair of K12's with the DL on an outdoor acoustic "stage" last weekend (no sub). Highly impressed and very tempted to bash the wallet if I can raise the cash

IMO the RCF 312a is just as good and considerably less expensive. I love my RCF 310a's. I once used them outdoors to cover 1000, I was told they sounded fine 1/2 mile away. Of course they were solidly in the red .

Well I'll tell you RR, I just setup not using the AUX 6 method and love it!!  With all QSC equipment, man how clean.  Great tonality.  Playing some James Taylor through the iPad (flat EQ) and sounds awesome!!  The K12 has a 75% coverage area and that's plenty for me.

[RoadRanger]

There are many "aux driven sub" fanatics out there but generally using a properly matched set of crossovers is easier and sounds better unless you really know what you're doing. I only desire aux driven subs outdoors where you want to keep wind rumble out of the subs. Indoors I prefer using crossover(s) but as I said have been using aux driven lately to avoid carrying any outboard rack gear. OTOH if you are into the "hot subs" sound (running the subs significantly hotter than the tops) aux driven works better for that. But I prefer to not sound like a bad DJ .

[sam.spoons]

I used a pair of K12's with the DL on an outdoor acoustic "stage" last weekend (no sub). Highly impressed and very tempted to bash the wallet if I can raise the cash

IMO the RCF 312a is just as good and considerably less expensive. I love my RCF 310a's. I once used them outdoors to cover 1000, I was told they sounded fine 1/2 mile away. Of course they were solidly in the red .

The other rig at the event was RCF, 4PRO series bins and tops I think. They did sound great but they're a bit more powerful/expensive (around ｣4000 for two of each....) than the ARTs. The ART312A's are significantly less powerful than the K12 at 400Watts RMS (against 1000) and the max SPL is 4dB's down, not huge but definitely significant. They are, as you say, a lot cheaper though. OTOH the Alto Truesonic TS112A is half the price again and, on paper at least, a match for the RCF's.