EQ settings

[abzurd]

I used the same subs as the OP for several years (RCF 705-AS) and that's not the EQ I would use. It's a band pass so the priority is output above tone. Here are my suggestions.

- Cross them over at 80 Hz (via the built in switch on the sub). It will put out strong above this but this helps the box thud more and produce less mid bass.

- I generally find a strong 125-150Hz dominate many rooms. I try to take this out of the bass guitar channel strip

- Try being more aggressive with your HPF. I set mine (lead singer) around 120, but the backing vocals are around 150 Hz. Put a HPF on the guitar too at at least 100 Hz.

- If you have keys in the band cut the lows there too. This keeps the left hand stuff from competing with the bass lines and cleans things up significantly.

[sam.spoons]

The room resonances obviously depend on the size of the room, I've had to deal with anything between 100Hz and 160Hz over the last few gigs. You are right about bass guitars exciting the room, this was part off the problem I had on Saturday (upright stick bass which is worse than a Fender Precision or similar), the other was the floor tom doing the same thing. I didn't HPF the piano on this occasion as it is a jazz flavoured line up and his low end was relevant (and being DI'd it didn't contribute to 'stage wash').

[LennyG]

Anything so severe as what is originally posted points to incorrectly configured equipment (crossover, etc).  The room and speaker placement certainly plays a large part in any EQ changes you should make, but I generally find that I can leave things flat, except in certain circumstances where room layout and speaker placement result in "boomy" bass.  I don't have an RTA, but since I play bass I find the offending notes and cut as appropriate (I carry a chart that shows notes correlated with frequency).  I usually don't have to cut a lot, and in only a very small area (just a band or three.)

I agree with an early poster that you should baseline your system in a "clean" room or facing out of a garage, so you know what settings result in your desired sound.  Then you should only need to tweak a little bit once you're at your venue.

One caveat to all this.  Be sure you're testing at a level similar to what you normally play.  Also have the monitors switchable in and out to compare.  Some bands crank the monitors so high that they almost don't need FOH sound, which results in difficulty achieving a clean FOH mix.  I'm fortunate that (in my band) we all use in-ear monitors and all play through the main P.A. (no separate guitar amps), so we have an easy time getting clean sound.  Now if only we could better isolate the drummer... 

[Sting]

Anything so severe as what is originally posted points to incorrectly configured equipment (crossover, etc).  The room and speaker placement certainly plays a large part in any EQ changes you should make, but I generally find that I can leave things flat, except in certain circumstances where room layout and speaker placement result in "boomy" bass.  I don't have an RTA, but since I play bass I find the offending notes and cut as appropriate (I carry a chart that shows notes correlated with frequency).  I usually don't have to cut a lot, and in only a very small area (just a band or three.)

I agree with an early poster that you should baseline your system in a "clean" room or facing out of a garage, so you know what settings result in your desired sound.  Then you should only need to tweak a little bit once you're at your venue.

One caveat to all this.  Be sure you're testing at a level similar to what you normally play.  Also have the monitors switchable in and out to compare.  Some bands crank the monitors so high that they almost don't need FOH sound, which results in difficulty achieving a clean FOH mix.  I'm fortunate that (in my band) we all use in-ear monitors and all play through the main P.A. (no separate guitar amps), so we have an easy time getting clean sound.  Now if only we could better isolate the drummer... 

My band has a hard-hitting drummer so monitor bleed was a serious problem.  For a while we went to drum shields and they helped somewhat but carrying and setting those things up was a PITA.   He recently bought a Rolland electronic kit and although I was skeptical,  it sounds incredible.  Many guys are dead set against e drums but after hearing and mixing them we will never go back to an acoustic kit because we mostly play small clubs.

[abzurd]

My band has a hard-hitting drummer so monitor bleed was a serious problem.  For a while we went to drum shields and they helped somewhat but carrying and setting those things up was a PITA.   He recently bought a Rolland electronic kit and although I was skeptical,  it sounds incredible.  Many guys are dead set against e drums but after hearing and mixing them we will never go back to an acoustic kit because we mostly play small clubs.

E-drums can indeed make a lot of bad stuff go away. 4+ less open mics, plus the bleed from the vocal mics into the drums, unavoidable increase in back line volume. The smaller the room, the bigger the benefit. Not as visually appealing, but they often become a conversation piece on their own. We just upgraded to a Roland TD-30 (from a TD-8) and WOW! Here's Saturday's 1st set - http://youtu.be/gjfHZS3IL7w

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjfHZS3IL7w" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjfHZS3IL7w</a>

[sam.spoons]

I'm not a fan of electronic drums, they can suck the life out of the band, (along with electric guitars straight into the PA via a Pod or some such and I have played with both). Maybe it's my age  OTOH I'm not a fan of mega loud stuff either and they do have a place (I'v done PA for two or three top notch functions bands who couldn't live without). Also I have been lucky enough to work with some great drummers who understand the concept of subtlety which definitely helps.

Nice video BTW (despite the above.....) great songs and well played

[jlb]

I normally run FOH eq flat. If there are any problem areas I will use a parametric with Systems Architect. Very rarely have to make more than a couple small cuts in problem rooms. Outside shows like this I never have to touch the eq. If you have to eq the hell out of your monitors and FOH there is something wrong somewhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYrrSTwHnjc

[Greg C.]

I normally run FOH eq flat. If there are any problem areas I will use a parametric with Systems Architect. Very rarely have to make more than a couple small cuts in problem rooms. Outside shows like this I never have to touch the eq. If you have to eq the hell out of your monitors and FOH there is something wrong somewhere.

Sometimes for louder acts and lively rooms, you have to do more drastic EQ, especially on loud monitors on a loud stage. And graphics can be a lot faster than parametrics when you've got a lot of mixes to ring out. Case in point, the 2003 Pearl Jam tour I was a fill in monitor tech on for a few weeks. Quite a bit of hacking had to occur to get things stable with 13 tri-amped mixes, 3 of which also had subs on an aux send. There are 4 more channels of EQ hidden by the desk in the PSU rack.

[Fluddman]

Greg, that is quite an impressive rig and a big step up from a DL1608.

How long do you think it will before that sort of hardware is replaced with virtual technology?

Cheers

[Greg C.]

Greg, that is quite an impressive rig and a big step up from a DL1608.

How long do you think it will before that sort of hardware is replaced with virtual technology?

Cheers

LOL. That was 2003. The current PJ setup uses a Midas Pro9 console plus a Midas Venice analog desk for one mix. They've also switch to some in ears so less wedges on stage. But still quite a few mixes. But a ton less real estate used in monitor world.

[walterw]

...generally the HP filters are not used

aah!

that's the number-one thing you gotta do. high-pass everything except kick and bass, maybe some low toms.

vox especially, run them puppies up to at least 100Hz, maybe higher. flatten out the channel EQ, talk into the mic and just start sliding the filter over until you hear the "woof" go away.

having just used the board last night, i followed my own advice; i found that right around 110Hz is where the vox just started to "clean up" with the HPF, and any higher caused the vox to sound thin.

[PeterKorg]

Used that advice last night, pushed my PA to its limit I think, 463 people, black tie event, in between our sets was Alexander O'Neal who did a half an hour set singing to backing tapes. Thanks again for your advice.

It was a very boomy room so without that advice I think I would have struggled

We did have one issue with an intermittent crackle, we finally managed to track it down to interference on wireless mic, changed the channel to cure it.

[Wynnd]

A good soundman earns their keep by tracing problems and figuring out the fixes.  Way to go on finding the mic problem. 

In my band, I seem to be the only one aware of mic channel issues.  I love the ease and simplicity of Shure's wireless mics systems.  Our lead singer has a Sennheiser system and it is a bit of a challenge to change.  He's never read the manual and doesn't carry it with him.  Now how useful is that?  I can manage it, but the manual would have been useful and being it's his system, he should know how to make everything work.  This is a singer who's first statements to the band was that he didn't know music and never counts beats.  We've all taken that to mean that if you have any musical training, it's worthless.  I'm pretty sure that wasn't his intent, but it feels sucky anyway. 

[PeterKorg]

Our lead singer has a Sennheiser system and it is a bit of a challenge to change.  He's never read the manual and doesn't carry it with him.  Now how useful is that?

LOL that was exactly my scenario Sennheiser beta, nice mic, and nice fancy box, no manual, and not straight forward to change, we did figure it out eventually.

To be fair, he has now read the manual and knows how to change, and only takes a few seconds.