Aux compression enough for IEMs?

[bdaprile]

Sorry guys. Just read the owner's manual and found the small grey swipe area on the aux EQ page. Can someone knowledgable about these settings give me a reasonable setting so nobody in the band loses their hearing with the IEMs? This would be extremely helpful as I'm not a real sound engineer. I obviously concerned with feedback or other "spikes" in sound level going into their IEMs via the aux channel and would like it "limited" somehow to protect their hearing. Comments from any experts is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.


Brian
DL1608, Bose L1S with B2 Bass Module, iPad 3

[stevegarris]

I use the aux's every gig for IEM mix. It works excellent, but I don't know the models of IEM their using.
I set my vocal compression lightly, with a ratio from 2:1 to 3:1 and 3-6 db gain reduction (when activated).

There's also the compressor on the aux output, but i don't use it.

that's exactly backwards!

you don't want to compress the individual vocals in their monitors, that's what leads to over-singing and blown-out voices. that's what the big hullabaloo over V2.0 was about, the option to take that channel comp off the auxes.

you do want to use the aux comp, set up more like a limiter; fastest attack, very high ratio (to where the top of the green "mountain" graph is pretty much chopped off flat), and the threshold is just high enough that it doesn't get reached with normal levels.

that way, there's no squash in the ears with normal use (preserving the singer's dynamics and their voices) but any "accidents" will hit the threshold limit and not blow anybody up.

Being fairly new to IEM's, I have not yet had any issues with over-singing or blown out voices. My singers are pro's, and sing at a very even level each night, so we've never had a problem. By using the channel compressors lightly, they hear what I hear. I had not thought about putting a limiter on the aux out's, but that is an excellent idea. I've never needed it for live monitors, so I've just mixed IEM's the same. I'll give it a try at the next gig.

Regarding pre/post DSP, I've completely changed my thinking on this, as a result of owning this board. I've learned that if I make EQ adjustments to a particular channel, that needs to be heard in the monitor as well. You can't fix individual channels with the aux 31 band EQ, so at this point I prefer the channel EQ to be heard in the IEM. I'm using the channel comp's very lightly, and my band loves the IEM's, so I must be doing something right! (I'm going to try the aux limiters at the next gig)

[WK154]

Assuming you use Aux's 1-6 for your IEM's set the output compressor for the following.
Hard Knee, Threshold around -1dB FS, Ratio at infinity (far right), Attack at .1ms (far left), release 3 min (far right), gain at 0dB (far left). That should stop any unwanted event to go past your max settings on Aux's. The DL right now is NOT RELIABLE  and until it is fixed by Mackie I would recommend NOT using the DL period. Most wireless IEM have their own protection. It's wired that are ? limiters or not.

[bdaprile]

Thanks so much for the reply regarding the limiter settings. I will definitely use those.

But then you go on to say the DL is not reliable for this usage. Are you saying that the aux out limiters may not work to protect a musician with IEMs? Why is that?

Also, I didn't know the IEMs could have their own limiter. I'll have to look into that.


Brian
DL1608, Bose L1S with B2 Bass Module, iPad 3

[WK154]

Simply the DL as a mixer can let go with white noise and other problems at any time. Three or more threads on this forum alone describe this problem. Their Facebook  account has many more users with this and they are treating it rather matter of fact. Mackie needs to fix the code ASAP to make this mixer reliable again. When this happens they may get some credibility back as a equipment supplier. I wouldn't want to be potentially risking someone's hearing with a known defective kit. That's what Law Suits are made off.

[Wynnd]

All outputs have Compression.  Go to the aux or LR EQ and then flick the screen up or down to get to the compressor.  If you didn't know that, then you probably haven't seen the compressor and gate on each of the individual channels where you also have a screen for the reverb and delay.  Works exactly the same way there.  The reason there are no gates on the aux outputs, is probably because I can't think of any circumstances where you would use that.  Gates are an individual channel issue only.  It's not as quick as on an analog board, but there is a lot of depth to this board.  (Can be a bit clumsy, but these are things that usually aren't changed during a show.)

[robbocurry]

Thanks so much for the reply regarding the limiter settings. I will definitely use those.

But then you go on to say the DL is not reliable for this usage. Are you saying that the aux out limiters may not work to protect a musician with IEMs? Why is that?

Also, I didn't know the IEMs could have their own limiter. I'll have to look into that.


Brian
DL1608, Bose L1S with B2 Bass Module, iPad 3

Au contraire Brian,
Lots of other people (myself included) have never had any "white noise" issues or any problems with the DL that would deem it unreliable.
We use a mixture of sidefills and Sennheiser IEMs and have never had a "near deaf experience" 

[Harpman]

Thanks so much for the reply regarding the limiter settings. I will definitely use those.

But then you go on to say the DL is not reliable for this usage. Are you saying that the aux out limiters may not work to protect a musician with IEMs? Why is that?

Also, I didn't know the IEMs could have their own limiter. I'll have to look into that.


Brian
DL1608, Bose L1S with B2 Bass Module, iPad 3

I can tell you, my Shure IEM's do.  Here is an page out of the manual:

LIM LED
The P2R Receiver has a non–defeatable (constantly active) limiter that automatically activates
if the receiver output level exceeds a certain volume, which is calibrated specifically for the
Shure earphones. The LIM LED on the top of the unit lights up when the limiter is on. If the
LIM LED blinks occasionally, turn down the volume of the receiver.* If the LED is on and you
haven’t reached a high enough listening level, try re-inserting the earphones for a better seal,
or adjust the mix that is being sent to the receiver to include only the most essential inputs.**
* When the LED is on, the volume will not increase.

**The limiter is designed to work best with the Shure earphones. Using the P2R with other Shure earphones or earphones
made by other manufacturers, can result in higher limited volume levels

I don't know about other manufacturers though.

[WK154]

Thanks so much for the reply regarding the limiter settings. I will definitely use those.

But then you go on to say the DL is not reliable for this usage. Are you saying that the aux out limiters may not work to protect a musician with IEMs? Why is that?

Also, I didn't know the IEMs could have their own limiter. I'll have to look into that.


Brian
DL1608, Bose L1S with B2 Bass Module, iPad 3

Au contraire Brian,
Lots of other people (myself included) have never had any "white noise" issues or any problems with the DL that would deem it unreliable.
We use a mixture of sidefills and Sennheiser IEMs and have never had a "near deaf experience" 

You'd have a ball in  Monte Carlo or Vegas (snake-eyes or hit me again). Consider yourself as lucky. The Senn's have a limiter.

[Harpman]

Thanks so much for the reply regarding the limiter settings. I will definitely use those.

But then you go on to say the DL is not reliable for this usage. Are you saying that the aux out limiters may not work to protect a musician with IEMs? Why is that?

Also, I didn't know the IEMs could have their own limiter. I'll have to look into that.


Brian
DL1608, Bose L1S with B2 Bass Module, iPad 3

Au contraire Brian,
Lots of other people (myself included) have never had any "white noise" issues or any problems with the DL that would deem it unreliable.
We use a mixture of sidefills and Sennheiser IEMs and have never had a "near deaf experience" 

I think the higher quality IEMs have the protection (i.e. limiters) needed like the Sennheiser / Shure.  Man, you must have lots of $$  . Sennheiser's aren't cheap (you get what you pay for).  Curious on what you use for sidefills.

[robbocurry]

Thanks so much for the reply regarding the limiter settings. I will definitely use those.

But then you go on to say the DL is not reliable for this usage. Are you saying that the aux out limiters may not work to protect a musician with IEMs? Why is that?

Also, I didn't know the IEMs could have their own limiter. I'll have to look into that.


Brian
DL1608, Bose L1S with B2 Bass Module, iPad 3

Au contraire Brian,
Lots of other people (myself included) have never had any "white noise" issues or any problems with the DL that would deem it unreliable.
We use a mixture of sidefills and Sennheiser IEMs and have never had a "near deaf experience" 

I think the higher quality IEMs have the protection (i.e. limiters) needed like the Sennheiser / Shure.  Man, you must have lots of $$  . Sennheiser's aren't cheap (you get what you pay for).  Curious on what you use for sidefills.

We use a mixture depending on stage size. Mostly 12"+1" boxes with 15" sub on bigger stages - specifically Martin F12+ & S15 or Db Technologies Opera.
I tend to overspend on the band gear, that's why I'll never be rich! Made a million, spent a million and a half

BTW: Happy Christmas to you all and a prosperous 2014 

[Harpman]

We have the Bose L1 Compacts for trio and smaller and I sometimes use those as side-fills.  Works really good.  Yeah, I make all my money in IT work and spend it on music equipment.  I'm just one of those techno-junkies who has to have the latest and greatest. WK154 (Bill) and his wife came to one of our gigs last week and Kepi got to try the Heil PR35 mic.  Tried to stick it in my bag but Bill was too quick  . Between IEM's, mics and everything else, I'll be broke before 2014 starts .  Merry Christmas to all of you on the forum and YES, a prosperous 2014!!

[WK154]

Hey Gio before you go and spend $$ I have 79 more to try out. After the Holidays I'll run some ideas past you that may be a better fit for Kepi and the group. So save some $ for the after Christmas sales. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

[RoadRanger]

AFAIK all wireless IEM systems have limiters - even the cheap ones. And as for the white noise "issue" I believe that only affects the iPad playback channel so as long as you don't have that in your IEMs you shouldn't have an issue - plus a limiter set on the aux output should limit any event including that one. OTOH a problem after the limiter (bad cord, headphone amp accidentally turned up, etc) can still blow out your ears - having the limiter right in the bodypack that the earbuds plug into minimizes the chances of a catastrophic event.

[WK154]

AFAIK all wireless IEM systems have limiters - even the cheap ones. And as for the white noise "issue" I believe that only affects the iPad playback channel so as long as you don't have that in your IEMs you shouldn't have an issue - plus a limiter set on the aux output should limit any event including that one. OTOH a problem after the limiter (bad cord, headphone amp accidentally turned up, etc) can still blow out your ears - having the limiter right in the bodypack that the earbuds plug into minimizes the chances of a catastrophic event.

AFAIK your AS900's don't have limiters. From AS1000 on up they mention it. I never asked if the white noise also ended up in Aux's or just L/R. The only way I would presently operate the DL would be through WiFi and playback thru inputs 15, 16 or the like. Some users have had problems without playback or recording. But then who knows? If this were your only mixer I could understand your dilemma. I would be pounding on Mackie's door every 5 minutes till it gets fixed.