Author Topic: Aux compression enough for IEMs?  (Read 30449 times)

RoadRanger

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2013, 05:24:40 AM »
AFAIK your AS900's don't have limiters.
"The AS-900R (receiver) features an 80mw headphone amplifier with a standard 3.5mm (1/8") headphone output. The AS-900R is sure to be plenty loud for any environment. The receiver has a built in limiter."
http://galaxyaudio.com/pdfs/AS-900_cut_sheet.pdf

WK154

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2013, 05:39:03 AM »
Yep stand corrected. I just looked at their users manual and general adv. You'd think they would list it in their Adv. or the specs. I guess words cost $$.
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walterw

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2013, 05:52:39 AM »
Being fairly new to IEM's, I have not yet had any issues with over-singing or blown out voices. My singers are pro's, and sing at a very even level each night, so we've never had a problem. By using the channel compressors lightly, they hear what I hear. I had not thought about putting a limiter on the aux out's, but that is an excellent idea. I've never needed it for live monitors, so I've just mixed IEM's the same. I'll give it a try at the next gig.

Regarding pre/post DSP, I've completely changed my thinking on this, as a result of owning this board. I've learned that if I make EQ adjustments to a particular channel, that needs to be heard in the monitor as well. You can't fix individual channels with the aux 31 band EQ, so at this point I prefer the channel EQ to be heard in the IEM. I'm using the channel comp's very lightly, and my band loves the IEM's, so I must be doing something right! (I'm going to try the aux limiters at the next gig)
i dunno, it's pretty much live sound 101 that compressing vocals in monitors is Not Done.

i suppose that if this isn't a loud rock band, and if the compressing is set such that it's not even engaging half the time, then it's no big deal. still, you might try setting it "pre-DSP" to see if the singers notice a difference. the "tell" will be if they ask you to back the vocals down a little or if they seem to be singing softer or further away from the mic, this means they're now hearing themselves better.

same with EQ, if the channel EQ is pretty much set then left alone, then it's OK if it shows up in the monitors too. otherwise, tweaking it mid-song is a good way to freak out your singers. also, they shouldn't need much corrective channel EQ in the ears, that's mostly a "speaker box in the room" issue.

finally, i suspect most hardware IEM limiters are set so that when they kick in you're already pretty goddamn loud.

Jerrylee

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2013, 11:12:19 AM »
Your reference to industry standard typically applies to live wedges not to IEMs. Industry standard does typically put compression on IEMs. I used to run a presonus board. Presonus even adds this concept in their owners manual.

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2013, 01:53:23 PM »
Compression in monitors is a no go, but with IEMs?  Sure, why not?  Feedback is the only reason for not using them in monitors.

Harpman

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2013, 12:01:22 AM »
I'm now considering the GA AS-1100 or AS-1500.  Since the Shure is "Mono" only, I can only use the 1:~ (many) 1-Aux mix to many body-packs.  I know with the AS-1500, you have "Mixed Mono" mode where I can take 2 AUX sends from the DL and the band member can determine which mix he/she wants to hear.  Not sure about the AS-1100 or AS-900 (one that RR owns).  This way I can leverage how many transmitters I need to buy.  I can use AUX 1-4 with 2 Transmitters and have a lot of choices on who gets what mix.  RR, really curious on the quality and durability of Galaxy Audio since you already own one.  I can get the AS-1500 at GC for the price I paid for the Shure PSM 200.
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Greg C.

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2013, 12:12:56 AM »
Compression in monitors is a no go, but with IEMs?  Sure, why not?  Feedback is the only reason for not using them in monitors.

Not true. The general goal of monitors for vocalists is to give an accurate representation of what their voice is doing in relation to the microphone, including dynamics. If you compress a monitor mix regardless of whether it's a wedge or IEMs, you're altering what dynamics the vocalist hears. This can be detrimental as the harder a vocalist pushes their voice, the more the compressor will squash the level they hear which can lead to several issues including damaged vocal cords and "over-singing." So unless a vocalist specifically wants compression in their mix, it should be avoided so they hear what they're really doing instead of a more "produced" sound.
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RoadRanger

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2013, 12:43:36 AM »
I agree with Greg C. And as to the durability of the AS-900, they seem as well built as any to me. Any of the transmitters will sound better and get better range in true mono than with the stereo transmission needed to run two channels on one transmitter - I'd not go the "dual mono" route if you can avoid it.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 12:46:41 AM by RoadRanger »

Harpman

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2013, 06:59:41 PM »
My only neg on the AS-900 is single freq.  The AS-1500 is being discontinued, so that only leaves the AS-1100 or 1800.  I think the 1800 is overkill for my needs.  I also have a Behringer Powerplay HA4700 which I want to utilize for stationary players (i.e. Drummer, Bassist, Keyboardist).  Obviously the goal here is to keep the stage and noise floor at a minimum and also having more real estate by elimination of floor monitors. Everyone on this forum has a different configuration based who they run sound for (i.e. choir, solo, 3-4 piece band, etc.).  So here is my 5-piece configuration:  Lead Vocalist, Guitarist, Bassist, Keyboardist (dual) and Drummer.  In addition to Kepi as the lead vocalist, our guitarist, bassist and drummer also sing so their are vocal mics present for them as well.  BTW, for those who disagree with using the DL AUX compression as "limiters", I have 2 Behringer MDX4600 (4-channel compressor/limiters) that I can utilize for the non-wireless monitors.  May have to go to my 10u rack versus 6u.  So much for scaling down, but I guess if I don't have to lug the wedges around anymore, so be it  :lol:
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walterw

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2013, 08:13:34 PM »
BTW, for those who disagree with using the DL AUX compression as "limiters", I have 2 Behringer MDX4600 (4-channel compressor/limiters) that I can utilize for the non-wireless monitors.  May have to go to my 10u rack versus 6u.  So much for scaling down, but I guess if I don't have to lug the wedges around anymore, so be it  :lol:.
ugh, why? there's no reason the mackie auxes can't just use their own comps set as safety limiters, especially since when run right they'll never get hit. (also, if you really wanted to drag out old-school rack comps, there's no reason you couldn't put that stuff on the wired and wireless IEMs.)

WK154

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2013, 09:03:27 PM »
My only neg on the AS-900 is single freq.  The AS-1500 is being discontinued, so that only leaves the AS-1100 or 1800.  I think the 1800 is overkill for my needs.  I also have a Behringer Powerplay HA4700 which I want to utilize for stationary players (i.e. Drummer, Bassist, Keyboardist).  Obviously the goal here is to keep the stage and noise floor at a minimum and also having more real estate by elimination of floor monitors. Everyone on this forum has a different configuration based who they run sound for (i.e. choir, solo, 3-4 piece band, etc.).  So here is my 5-piece configuration:  Lead Vocalist, Guitarist, Bassist, Keyboardist (dual) and Drummer.  In addition to Kepi as the lead vocalist, our guitarist, bassist and drummer also sing so their are vocal mics present for them as well.  BTW, for those who disagree with using the DL AUX compression as "limiters", I have 2 Behringer MDX4600 (4-channel compressor/limiters) that I can utilize for the non-wireless monitors.  May have to go to my 10u rack versus 6u.  So much for scaling down, but I guess if I don't have to lug the wedges around anymore, so be it  :lol:.
Here's my thoughts on this. So far everyone is pretty much in one spot for the performance so do you really need wireless freedom? So go wired for now with fewer headaches. The A900 are limited life so the only Galaxy solution is the 1100 or the 1800 in a frequency range of 500-600Mhz. They will likely come up with a new model to fit the new FCC straightjacket. If you go wireless you will need to eventually procure an RF analyzer or go with the high end wireless systems like Shure ULX or Senn 2000 networked and with built in analyzers. Wedges are a big part of stage wash but not the only thing and performers you can't get rid of. So there is the whole other issue of the right mic for the job. Another topic for another time. First rule of audio Less is More.
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walterw

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2013, 06:43:36 AM »
If you go wireless you will need to eventually procure an RF analyzer or go with the high end wireless systems like Shure ULX or Senn 2000 networked and with built in analyzers.
why?

my working bar band's been on wireless IEMs for years, and i don't even know what any of that stuff is! the singer and i use older shure PSM400s, and the bass player uses a nicer PSM600 (drummer is on wired IEMs of course). we've never "networked" or "analyzed" anything  ???

Greg C.

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2013, 07:12:46 AM »
If you go wireless you will need to eventually procure an RF analyzer or go with the high end wireless systems like Shure ULX or Senn 2000 networked and with built in analyzers.
why?

my working bar band's been on wireless IEMs for years, and i don't even know what any of that stuff is! the singer and i use older shure PSM400s, and the bass player uses a nicer PSM600 (drummer is on wired IEMs of course). we've never "networked" or "analyzed" anything  ???

The FCC is getting ready to sell off more of the wireless spectrum again after a big selloff (the 700MHz) band that went into effect in 2010. Next on the auction block is the 600MHz (608-698) band. The 700MHz (698-806) band is now in use by emergency service in certain locales. If you are caught using them, you can be subject to fines of up to $100k and thrown in jail if interference effects emergency operations. Some of my wireless mics had to be retired as a result already. More will if/when the next auction goes through. So this leaves a lot less "white space" for wireless mics and IEMs to operate in and the need for spectrum analyzers to find a "hole" that's not in use will become a necessarily evil to make sure your shit doesn't cut out mid show. You might want to check your current gear and make sure you're not operating illegally already and also to see if it might become illegal in the next couple of years.
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walterw

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2013, 07:34:58 AM »
If you go wireless you will need to eventually procure an RF analyzer...
why?

my working bar band's been on wireless IEMs for years... we've never "networked" or "analyzed" anything  ???

The FCC is getting ready to sell off more of the wireless spectrum again after a big selloff...
oh yeah, i guess our wide open wireless frontier is getting all civilized, isn't it? i don't see our 3 little bar band transmitters getting us in trouble, but i do see a day when fire and rescue chatter starts blasting into our IEMs!  :o

Harpman

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Re: Aux compression enough for IEMs?
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2013, 05:17:42 PM »
If you go wireless you will need to eventually procure an RF analyzer...
why?

my working bar band's been on wireless IEMs for years... we've never "networked" or "analyzed" anything  ???

The FCC is getting ready to sell off more of the wireless spectrum again after a big selloff...
oh yeah, i guess our wide open wireless frontier is getting all civilized, isn't it? i don't see our 3 little bar band transmitters getting us in trouble, but i do see a day when fire and rescue chatter starts blasting into our IEMs!  :o

Well, I guess we will be the first ones out the door in the event of a fire, eh?  :lol:.
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