Alternative control and recording.

[sam.spoons]

Very interesting. I've said in other threads that I'd like a way to control MF with midi via the camera kit or bluetooth or some such to allow me to use a hardware fader pack like the Behringer BCF2000, if you're interested look at the Master/My Fader V3 Wants and Speculation thread (sticky at the top) for my last post).

[WK154]

My e-mail to Mackie. Answer should be interesting.

I have been informed that uClinux is at the heart of your DL series of mixers.
Please acknowledge this or correct me if I have been misinformed. Also will you
ever publish the Mandolin communications protocol used in the DL series. What
does your Linux CD contain? Please direct this e-mail to the relevant party if
you cannot answer it.

[sam.spoons]

I know you ain't holding your breath either........ but it'll be an interesting reply if it ever comes. Nice one WK

[WK154]

Well Sam were both surprised and of course the canned answer. Here it is from Ben.
Hello,

Thanks for the email. To comply with the GPL, LOUD Technologies Inc. will provide upon written request via email or traditional paper mail the applicable GPL source code files via CD-ROM for a nominal cost to cover media, shipping and handling charges as allowed under the GPL. The CD includes any modifications we have made to the Linux Kernel allowing it to run on our specific hardware. It does not include any user space applications.
If you are still interested, please send me back your shipping address and I will reply with the total cost. Please allow 2-4 weeks for delivery.

Ben Olswang

He doesn't answer any other questions, no multitasking here. I'll send him the request just to see what they will charge. I can just imagine mods to the kernel by Mackie.

[WK154]

Some interesting insight to the DL software foundation and possible future enhancements for the DL by it's product manager Ben Olswang.

Mandolin is our internal communications protocol. But Mandolin is not static. As
we add new features to the DL series, Mandolin gets significantly updated;
that's why you see the Mandolin version number listed in the Tools>About>More
popover. We need to change it arbitrarily at any time which would brake anything
using an old version. It is also so deeply ingrained in the product and app that
it is not suitable for generic control by a third party app. A third party
protocol you just want to be able to fire a few messages and then look for a few
simple responses. Mandolin is not architected that way. It has extensive flows
used throughout that require an extremely complex communication layer. It works
great for our needs but it just isn't designed for third party usage.
We understand that external control from a third party is an important feature
but something like MIDI over Ethernet,  OSC or OCA are much more appropriate for
this purpose and adding one of these types of things to our product makes way
more sense than releasing Mandolin.

[sam.spoons]

So a message for Ben Olswang... You mention "midi over ethernet", that would be a way to allow third party devices control over the DL. Is this in the pipeline?

 I'm not a programmer but am I being naive suggesting that midi control over MF on an iPad via USB (Camera Connection Kit) may be a very simple way of gaining access to some physical controls?

[WK154]

Sam a wireless MIDI device would be the more direct and reliable way to go rather than go through MF. Like having another iPad controlling the DL but with faders and knobs and portable. There are lots of solutions in that method out there ie. http://createdigitalmusic.com/2011/01/new-solutions-for-wireless-midi-midiosc-developers-answer-questions/

[sam.spoons]

Agreed but you'd need the iPad to deal with the functions not available on the control surface so I thought that way might be easier to implement. I realise you'd have to modify both MF and the DL firmware so it's probably academic whether it's less work to have the midi via the iPad or direct with the DL firmware. Either way it would be a major extra selling point for the DL.

WK, you have far more knowledge in this than me, in your opinion is this possible with the current hardware and how big a rewrite would it require?

BTW, wouldn't your solution require a bespoke surface? Mine should work with any midi control surface?

[WK154]

Current hardware can handle it, unfortunately I would have to have knowledge of the current code to answer the rewrite question and that's not to be.

[sam.spoons]

quote BenO "We understand that external control from a third party is an important feature
but something like MIDI over Ethernet,  OSC or OCA are much more appropriate for
this purpose and adding one of these types of things to our product makes way
more sense than releasing Mandolin."

We can but hope 

[WK154]

On that one I wouldn't hold my breath.

[sam.spoons]

I guess new features on the present DL aren't going to generate loads of extra sales, a new mk2 might shake thing up a bit, if it had a few essentials like multitrack recording, plug in fx etc but from a commercial POV I don't suppose we'll see any more major updates to MF.

[metacom]

Wasn't getting updates about the thread in my email for some reason.

An update on what will be possible:

Generic control surface: Yes
MIDI control: Yes (and OSC/whatever)
Recording:TBD -- I have an approach, but it may be a mode switch type thing. either mixing/effects/etc or recording. No PoC yet. Also may brick the mixer... Hardware addon possible.
Android: Yes!
PC Control: Yep! (already working)

Ben's point re: updates to the protocol will break things, entirely true. But if I'm selling stuff that relies on mandolin protocol integration, I'm gonna update as fast as humanely possible on any update...

Will post a video later showing PC control proof of concept once I get a working camera of some sort!

[WK154]

Kinda wondered what happened to you, glad you're back. Would the CD help in your efforts? Since I have no DL code to evaluate I can only speculate on the crumbs feed to us by Mackie. The presumption that Mandolin would not be useful to third parties is preposterous. There are much smarter people out there than the ones at Mackie. Could you imagine if iPad com or audio code would break apps when adding new features. That of course leads to one conclusion that modularity and good coding practices and backward compatibility are not the order of the day.
One another subject, the boot loader indicates that about 1 Meg is used for uClinux. Do you have a number for the whole DL app? They have 32 MB of flash and 32 MB of ram to play with. Would be useful to see how much is still available for new code.

[metacom]

Will take about 45 mins before it's ready.

re: space..
Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/root                18.0M      4.7M     13.3M  26% /

Plenty! The core app takes up about 560k  Note in the above, I have a bunch of other stuff that's not stock. so nearer 3.9M used on stock.

EDIT: No, don't need the CD. Have a working toolchain and have successfully compiled and run a few things on in already.