Master/My Fader V4 Wants and Speculation

[Wynnd]

I've got the left over parts from a Behringer powered mixer on my work bench after it died.  I've also had a small mixer that I gave to a friend to mix his keyboards and the only functioning piece of Behringer equipment that I still own is my cable tester.  (Got to do something with that dead mixer.)   So suggesting that I've never owned any Behringer gear is wrong.  But hey, I've been in the music business longer than Behringers have been imported.  (Maybe longer than the company has been around?  Haven't looked it up.)  I've owned Montgomery Wards, Standel, Acoustic, Heathkit, Vox, Altec Lansing  equipment over the years.  (a 35 watt tube, Altec Lansing PA head.)  That's just the odd stuff.  (Or at least the stuff from companies that are basically gone now.) 

[Wynnd]

Just found out that I've been living in Colorado longer than Behringer has existed.  How about that?

[WK154]

Just checking what hardware you have. I did mean digital mixers, my bad, I currently have 3 digital Behringer mixers. DDX3216, X32, XR18 all fully functional. I've been at this since 1954, you do the math.

[Wynnd]

If you've been doing this since 1954 and I would assume that you were near 20 at that time, you would be about 80 years old now.  That's a lot of history.  (And just a few years younger than my Mother-in-law.)  I turn 62 later this month.  I only have the DL1608, Alesis Multi-mix 16 firewire and a new Yamaha tiny mixer.  I'm not trying to be all things to all people.  I'm happy where I am.  (Doing sound for a Jazz group later today.)  Also coming to the conclusion that most musicians now own at least one PA system.  It's great for the manufacturers, but a bit stupid for musicians to own something that most of them aren't qualified to run on the bleeding edge.  I also think I have too much stuff and need to get rid of some of it.  Maybe I can get some musicians to buy it.

[WK154]

If you've been doing this since 1954 and I would assume that you were near 20 at that time, you would be about 80 years old now.  That's a lot of history.  (And just a few years younger than my Mother-in-law.)  I turn 62 later this month.  I only have the DL1608, Alesis Multi-mix 16 firewire and a new Yamaha tiny mixer.  I'm not trying to be all things to all people.  I'm happy where I am.  (Doing sound for a Jazz group later today.)  Also coming to the conclusion that most musicians now own at least one PA system.  It's great for the manufacturers, but a bit stupid for musicians to own something that most of them aren't qualified to run on the bleeding edge.  I also think I have too much stuff and need to get rid of some of it.  Maybe I can get some musicians to buy it.

Never ass-u-me at 13 (7th grade as stagecrafters) we did audio, film and lighting along with set building etc. I had to do the math for you anyway I'm 73. I know I have way too much gear. Way more than I can use.

[Soundbyte]

Just checking what hardware you have. I did mean digital mixers, my bad, I currently have 3 digital Behringer mixers. DDX3216, X32, XR18 all fully functional. If been at this since 1954, you do the math.

Let's dail the rhetoric back a notch!! I don't think anyone's trying to insult your intelligence. I too will not touch Behringer because of problems I've had in the past. I'm not going to speak to the Behringer of today, but back then, they were considered the BIC lighter of the industry. They worked until they didn't and then you threw them away. Now, I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinion or go out of my way to bash Behringer. Some people swear by it and I say "what ever floats your boat". But I'm not going to pretend the problems they had in the past didn't exist.

[WK154]

Just checking what hardware you have. I did mean digital mixers, my bad, I currently have 3 digital Behringer mixers. DDX3216, X32, XR18 all fully functional. I've been at this since 1954, you do the math.

Let's dail the rhetoric back a notch!! I don't think anyone's trying to insult your intelligence. I too will not touch Behringer because of problems I've had in the past. I'm not going to speak to the Behringer of today, but back then, they were considered the BIC lighter of the industry. They worked until they didn't and then you threw them away. Now, I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinion or go out of my way to bash Behringer. Some people swear by it and I say "what ever floats your boat". But I'm not going to pretend the problems they had in the past didn't exist.

The word is "dial" and I agree with you that the anti-Behringer rhetoric needs to be stopped.  I don't live in the past but certainly learn from my mistakes and as you stated "what ever floats your boat". Your BIC analogy is your opinion but they didn't get to where they're today without improvements YMMV. No insult perceived.

[Soundbyte]

Yes the word is dial, but I have a sneaking suspicion that my thoughts were understood by all so I can only assume that you condescended a bit with that statement. Look, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. I'm willing to have a civilized discussion and share ideas and opinions with anyone that wants to reciprocate. My thoughts on Behringer equipment are mine and mine alone. As I said, I'm not trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking. I'm just stating my circumstance, the way I lived them. As I stated, I'm not speaking of today's  Behringer, and by all accounts I agree with what you're saying.

[Wynnd]

Behringer would hardly be the first company to watch for market trends and then jump in when someone else proved there was a barely tapped market.  Lately that's been people copying Apple.  Apple sees a product that isn't selling well but they think it should, they create their own version, mp3 player, tablet, smartphone and then the product takes off.  Then other companies jump on the bandwagon.  Tablets, smartphones, mp3 players.  Will be interesting to see what happens with the Apple Watch.  (That one might fail in my opinion.  With the expected price of the high end one, I'd be surprised if they sell 10 of the $10,000+ version.) 

[ijpengelly]

Back on topic, now that the majority of functionality has been sorted (though I do like the incremental increase / decrease double tap idea), is it now not time that some focus is given to reverbs? I have generally got on ok with them, but recently (with new songs that the band are doing) they just fall short. Perhaps an opportunity to include for plug-ins so that we could use commonly available effects? At the very least maybe a rehash of the existing pre-sets to give something a bit closer to the built in effects of the CFX range?

[Wynnd]

I'm wondering if the problem with the effects isn't partly the complexity level of the controls.  You have the send for each channel.  That's normal.  You have the effect choice.  That one's a bit weird, but with greater control options than small boards normally have.  Then you have the send and then you have an add to each output.  I'm a bit of the opinion that if there was a place that needed a classic format option, it's the effects.  For comparison, you have 3 controls in any single path on a mixwiz's effects.  You have 3 volume controls only on any single path on DL's effects and then you add the effect choice and leave all the options open for an additional 4 controls.

I'd like to hear about the effect units that people like to see how they actually differ from the DLs.

[ijpengelly]

I am happy with the routing, that works fine and is identical to my old analogue scenario. I have had a few effects units that I liked, the Zoom RFX 1000 and 2000, the Alesis Midiverb and a Yamaha 14bit digital processor. Even some of the presets in the Behringer mixers are useable off the bat. I've never had the pleasure of using a Lexicon unit, so can't comment, but assume that is the benchmark.

[Soundbyte]

The effects routing on the DL is pretty strait forward. however, It would have been nice if they had included some send/return jacks In case you wanted to use some outboard gear. Yes you can use an aux/channel pair, but it would be nice if you didn't have to. The biggest problem I have with the reverb are the algorithms. They all sound rather hollow and metallic, like the inside of a large drainage pipe. It's passable for Rock, but lacks the airiness of an intimate vocal part. The delay is super, super basic! No modulation so you can't really do a convincing double and you can forget about chorus or flange. About all its good for is strait slapback and echo. It's very difficult to tap anything faster than 1/8's, or triplets faster than 1/4T with any degree of accuracy. That is why I only use the onboard FX for rudimentary stuff, and I use a Lexicon Mpx500 and a TC D-Two patched in on aux/channel pairs.

[RoadRanger]

The delay is super, super basic! No modulation so you can't really do a convincing double and you can forget about chorus or flange. About all its good for is strait slapback and echo.

I usually just use it for an "old school" style 20ms delay doubling.

[Keyboard Magic]

What are the odds that the release of MF 4.X will coincide with the release of a new product line?