Master Fader V3.0.1 is Here !

[Keyboard Magic]

I certainly have never said that MF 3.X was crap. It needs a little tweaking to be sure. My comparison between 2.X and 3.X and TouchMix, were based on opening that app(s) and noticing a difference between them after 5 minutes or so. This was enough to show me that MF 3.x does have lag issues, compared to MF 2.X, which I’ve been using since it came out, with no visible lag. TouchMix responds just as fast as MF 2.1.1 on the same old iPad 2.

No app is ever going to be 100% perfect and I never expect them to be, but when an update demonstrates a visible lag in my opinion compared to the older version on the same iPad, there is certainly something going on to create it. AND when I install a competitor’s app that was just updated, on the same old iPad and it shows no noticeable lag on the same iOS and graphics, something is not quite there yet with MF 3.X. I’ve even installed the X32 app and the X-Air app, no lag or issues upon opening them up.

[WK154]

KM then let me say it that MF3.x is a cobbled together piece of crap. This has taken advertising a step too far. Greg C. had it right a while back when he predicted that Mackie would dump the DL1608 with the next product. Well here it is. How about running competitors product for a year or better without noticeable lag, would that be good enough? It's time for Mackie to address the sync, lag and bundling problem without their usual BS and other excuses. Why is it that I have two versions of VoiceRecord without a problem on my iPad? What's wrong with MF16 and MF32 as apps? It's made even simpler by Apple since all Apps are sand-boxed. I've seen decisions made like this by companies before for product differentiation and they no longer exist or got a big black eye. 

[Keyboard Magic]

KM then let me say it that MF3.x is a cobbled together piece of crap. This has taken advertising a step too far. Greg C. had it right a while back when he predicted that Mackie would dump the DL1608 with the next product. Well here it is. How about running competitors product for a year or better without noticeable lag, would that be good enough? It's time for Mackie to address the sync, lag and bundling problem without their usual BS and other excuses. Why is it that I have two versions of VoiceRecord without a problem on my iPad? What's wrong with MF16 and MF32 as apps? It's made even simpler by Apple since all Apps are sand-boxed. I've seen decisions made like this by companies before for product differentiation and they no longer exist or got a big black eye. 

WK;
I have to agree with you and that this might indicate the end of support for the DL806/1608 platforms.  Many people have invested a lot of money in these and it’s sad it might happen. If you are on MF 2.X you’re safe, but no more updates. If you don't want to buy a new iPad or just stay on 2.X, that is. I can live happily on 2.X since everything works as it should. It’s not the end of the world. If you don’t have a backup of 2.X you have no choice to live with a slightly squirrely DL 1608/806 IMHO.

There are many that have no issues with a slight lag etc. That's great that it's a non issue. But for some, myself included, it's an annoyance that might just mess up a show in a critical moment. And thusly not acceptable.

My local music store no longer has the DL806 on their web site and the 1608 has been discounted $200 off the list price. Is the hand writing on the wall already here? Two versions of MF would make sense. SENSE? What’s that today?

[Wynnd]

I think a lot of complaining goes on for fairly minor reasons.  It seems very obvious to me that Master Fader 3.x is a completely rewritten app.  (Which explains why it looks so different while looking familiar.)   Sometimes you've got to give software developers some credit for being willing to go back to the drawing board.  Pretty sure Mackie will eventually figure out someone made a real math call when an integer call would have been more appropriate.  (For calculating location to display the PEQ token.  That is a probable explanation for Modern to have the lag and vintage to not.)  Of course, maybe Mackie figured out the white noise was caused by integer math calls to the processor.  I don't know, but integer math has been around since the very first computers. 

[Keyboard Magic]

I agree that it’s a total rewrite. But a lag, whether it’s not a big deal for most, is for quite a few here and out in the real world. It should be as responsive as 2.X. Nothing like trying to move a fader real fast in a panic, for some reason and it doesn’t hit the bottom until after your finger does. Or since you only use modern EQ for all your gigs and seeing and hearing your EQ change after you’ve physically changed the curve on the graph.

These things should all work within a reasonable amount of time, like following your finger very closely instead of a mile behind it. There was a minute (miniscule) lag with 2.X, but there is a noticeable lag with 3.X. Of course digital/virtual faders cannot compare to moving a real fader, but 2.X was pretty darn close in my opinion.

I would’ve jumped on 3.X and all its new features even for the DL1608. They’re great. But I’m glad I am able to stay on 2.X indefinitely. When the update comes out, I will be testing it on one of my iPads. If there’s no improvement, 2.X it is.

This is all based on perception as to what is a lag and what isn’t a lag. For some, no issues, but for quite a few there’s a perceived lag that should be and “eagerly hoping” that it will be addressed soon. Like I’ve said ad nauseum, I can happily go on in ignorant bliss using MF 2.X until the DL dies, but I am concerned for those here and elsewhere that are stuck with 3.X on the 806/1608 platforms who cannot go back.

I hope BenO and Mackie are watching and listening. Yes, I know that BenO said they are working on a “lag” cure, but I am not holding my breath. I do however have my fingers crossed for a quick solution. 

[WK154]

Really Wynnd, I know you want to throw yourself on that Mackie sword every chance you get but this is extreme. Just use iPad File Explorer or something comparable and look at the forbidden fruit. I know Jobs didn't want his users to hurt themselves but the files tell a lot. V2.1.1 that I currently have is made up of 823 files and a handful of folders. Some date back to V1.1 which was the first usable version issued Nov 15 2012. Most are png files (yes a raster display) with about 790 png files. Don't like something in the graphics load it into Photoshop or other graphics editor, change it and put it back into the iPad. The last release V2.1.1 was issued Feb 18 2014, actually finished on Feb 12 a Sunday. Since it took 16 months to get to V2.1.1 I highly doubt it's a "complete rewrite" in 9 more months. A quick look at the files tells all. As I suspected Mackie downloads the images into the DL including uLinux the Shark code (DSP) and the Black/App (bet they had fun with that) for the Blackfin ARM CPU. That math theory needs to go, really white noise issue or lag? KM still think it's a rewrite?

[Keyboard Magic]

Really Wynnd, I know you want to throw yourself on that Mackie sword every chance you get but this is extreme. Just use iPad File Explorer or something comparable and look at the forbidden fruit. I know Jobs didn't want his users to hurt themselves but the files tell a lot. V2.1.1 that I currently have is made up of 823 files and a handful of folders. Some date back to V1.1 which was the first usable version issued Nov 15 2012. Most are png files (yes a raster display) with about 790 png files. Don't like something in the graphics load it into Photoshop or other graphics editor, change it and put it back into the iPad. The last release V2.1.1 was issued Feb 18 2014, actually finished on Feb 12 a Sunday. Since it took 16 months to get to V2.1.1 I highly doubt it's a "complete rewrite" in 9 more months. A quick look at the files tells all. As I suspected Mackie downloads the images into the DL including uLinux the Shark code (DSP) and the Black/App (bet they had fun with that) for the Blackfin ARM CPU. That math theory needs to go, really white noise issue or lag? KM still think it's a rewrite?

When you get under the hood like you have, it does make sense. In my limited computer knowledge I do understand your explanation. Obviously to keep a very familiar look, they would use previously designed files. Then edit existing ones and layer new ones for the different look. Complete rewrite? Probably not. So what’s causing the perceived lag with the graphics? Too many graphics files to handle by a slower CPU/GPU and 512MB system RAM? (iPad 2) More system intensive features that affects the older iPads?

[Rdmitch]

Sure is a lot of discussion over this issue. Wish I new more about how and what makes these type of programs work, but like many
others I just use the app and mixer and want it to work like it always did before.  Why it doesn't work the way it should is kind of irrelevant to me.
I only want them to fix the problem, but I also understand that it's not an overnight process.
Again, I reiterate that the lag and other delay issues are FAR from making the product un usable. As many of us have
 found the work around to allow us to function with the V 3.01 app.

I did take the 1608  with the ipad air 2 for a dry run on Saturday night.  Just a practice for one of the bands I mix for.  Plugged in 6 vox mikes,
3-4 instrument mikes and had absolutely no problem.   Didn't mess with drum mikes for this test.   Not only did the 1608
perform just like in the "old days", but the retina display livens up the display a bit.    I left my regular Ipad 3 locked onto the board and just used the Air 2
as a remote.   I had to return the borrowed Ipad air this morning, but am waiting for one I ordered on line. 
 I doubt I will upgrade the 1608 with the lightning adaptor or air tray.
 

[Keyboard Magic]

Sure is a lot of discussion over this issue. Wish I new more about how and what makes these type of programs work, but like many
others I just use the app and mixer and want it to work like it always did before.  Why it doesn't work the way it should is kind of irrelevant to me.
I only want them to fix the problem, but I also understand that it's not an overnight process.
Again, I reiterate that the lag and other delay issues are FAR from making the product un usable. As many of us have
 found the work around to allow us to function with the V 3.01 app.

I did take the 1608  with the ipad air 2 for a dry run on Saturday night.  Just a practice for one of the bands I mix for.  Plugged in 6 vox mikes,
3-4 instrument mikes and had absolutely no problem.   Didn't mess with drum mikes for this test.   Not only did the 1608
perform just like in the "old days", but the retina display livens up the display a bit.    I left my regular Ipad 3 locked onto the board and just used the Air 2
as a remote.   I had to return the borrowed Ipad air this morning, but am waiting for one I ordered on line. 
 I doubt I will upgrade the 1608 with the lightning adaptor or air tray.

Thank you for posting your test results with the iPad Air 2.    Most informative for myself and I'm sure, others here. So it looks like the new iPad is the ticket if you want to have MF 3.X run like good ole MF 2.1.1. Unfortunately, for me an iPad Air 2 is out of the question right now and I'm sure for some here as well. Let's hope Mackie will eventually straighten things out.

[pytchley]

OK, so we've established that the ipad2 and original mini are slow, the ipad3 is hopeless and the Air2 works fine. Can we fill in the gaps? Anybody using mini 2 and 3, ipad 4 and air to give us their experiences?

[Keyboard Magic]

OK, so we've established that the ipad2 and original mini are slow, the ipad3 is hopeless and the Air2 works fine. Can we fill in the gaps? Anybody using mini 2 and 3, ipad 4 and air to give us their experiences?

I agree. Enquiring minds would certainly like to know. 

[Wynnd]

One more comment.  When I built my first bass,  building a second neck for it was much easier than fixing the issues with the first neck.  To some degree programming is like that.  Unless Mackie brought in a brand new team, rewriting MF 3.x might be easier than fixing the white noise problem. 

Also think that testing MF 3.x in the store with an iPad might let you know what your use experience will be.  Does Apple let you install free App Store apps on their display iPads?

[Keyboard Magic]

Also think that testing MF 3.x in the store with an iPad might let you know what your use experience will be.  Does Apple let you install free App Store apps on their display iPads?

I would think that if you were serious in buying one from them in the Apple Store, they should. I mean, how long would it take to delete the app from the display model? 5 seconds or less? In the real world? Probably very unlikely. 

[Rdmitch]

it's funny you should ask about trying the app at the APPle store.  The chances are no. 
About 2 weeks ago I ventured into the friendly local Apple store with exactly that intension. Before I started searching on e bay I wanted to know if it would be a fix. After waiting for the privilege of being helped I proceeded to explain to the salesperson what I needed to do.  He said they do not have the ability to download any apps in the retail store. Best suggestion was I could buy it, set it up right there in the store, load the app, try the app.
If did not work they would simply return the unit and void the transaction. I took a pass on that deal, since I was looking more on eBay or craigslist. I did however buy a cable I needed while I was there.
The next day, I get a survey in my email from the Apple Store asking me to rate the service. I did my best to be as nice as possible while still explaining the dissatisfaction of not being able to load the app to try.
a day goes by and I get a call from the Apple Store regional mgr. to discuss why my rating was less than stellar.
it might have been the comment about the sales person being more qualified to work at Apple...bees

we chatted a bit and he did reiterate that all the apps in the store are actually broadcast by apple from a remote office and they really can't download apps at the store.
Explaining to him why I needed to do this he seemed to feel it was all due to the processor architecture.

in thinking about this, I guess I can compare it some of our computers at work. they always worked fine doing their job, we could run all our programs including AutoCad which is pretty intense graphics. Now here comes BIM
which is 3 D building modeling with unreal graphics and guess what.....our computers just ain't got the balls to run it right .  Slow as molasses.  computers got updated to meet the needs, not by choice but by necessity. My guess is the new V.3 added so much with the overview screen, groupings and other new features that it just can't run on the old processor. The new pads have the  64 hz processor to run the retina display and that gives it the oomph, to handle 3.1

now I'm sure not saying we need to run out and buy iPads, cause that won't happen. we either live with the lag, hope they come up with a solution that will work with the old architecture which probably won't happen without giving up something else

Just think Mackie must have known about this or did not do a thorough job testing the program on older iPads.
They should have discovered it before us end users found it out the hard way. This is why I feel they OWE us the option to go back to V-2.

Just keep in mind a iPod air is about $400 on e bay (display model, refurbs, used). You can sell an older iPad for 150-200 making the fix about $200.00 net.  I sold an old ipad gen.2 16g for 150.00 this weekend.

[Keyboard Magic]

Rdmitch;

I kinda figured that, having never tried that at the Apple Store here. But thank you for sharing your experience. At least Apple was on the ball by following up with you in such a quick manner. Nice. I've always found Apple very helpful.

Mackie may just come up with a solution to this issue. Just have to be patient I guess. And it would be smart for them to either allow us to go back and or 2 versions of the app like WK suggested. I'm just ticked that there are a lot of people in the same boat right now. Stay on 2.X if you can, live the lag and wait for a solution, or upgrade your iPads. Ebay is looking interesting right now.