Aux subs, DRPA and Dl1608

[Trshot]

Hello all,
I've gone from a Mix Wix with a Drive Rack PA to the DL 1608 w/DRPA.
 
I want to run Aux Subs but can't see a way to do it with the DRPA. So my thoughts are to lose the DRPA and use the DL's HP/LP filters as my crossover. The DL offers a lot of processing that IMO renders the DRPA unnecessary to keep in the chain, your thoughts?
thanks...

[WK154]

Without knowing what's beyond the DRPA it's a generalization. The DRPA is a 2 in up to 6 out speaker management system far better equipped to handle job than the DL. Since you've had this for a while then you know that it can be a bear to setup right. Wynnd uses it and should have more input on this. Why do you want to control your subs via Aux? Is it for less gear? Different workflow could be your answer.

[Wynnd]

Yes I do use a DRPA on the output of my DL1608.  I wouldn't bother with aux run subs.  what is the reason for using them?  If you have a properly setup Drive Rack with subs, you don't really need to separate out items for the subs.  Can you do it without the DRPA?  Absolutely, but the DRPA doesn't take up much room and weighs very little so if you have it, use it.  (And you get very functional anti-feedback with it too.)

[RoadRanger]

I use the DL's HP/LP filters to run the tops on the main outs and the subs on aux 6. The only real issue is you have to adjust the aux 6 output fader when you adjust the main fader. I've had a loooong standing request into Mackie to "fix" this (AKA allow linking the main and aux 6 output faders), and maybe even offer a true crossover mode for those that want that .

[Trshot]

The main reason is to see if it truly "cleans up" the mix as I've read elsewhere. Although I'm happy with the overall sound, I  know the bottom can be better. I've used the  DRPA wizard and did a gain structure on the system but find the low end to be lacking in the punch dept as I've heard with other setups using similar gear. It's more boomy lacking that tight punchy feel. I run two sub set ups, single or dual 18" boxes depending on venue size. I've never been happy with how either sound including when I had the Mix Wiz. One set up is JBL SR4718X with a crown CE4000. The other is JBL MR528S with two bridged CE 4000's. I'm using an Audix D6 for my kick and have positioned it numerous ways As well. I'm a drummer, not a sound man but not lacking in the above basic knowledge running a PA.
The other reason is to be able to raise and lower the bottom end volume to have more control over it.

[RoadRanger]

^ What do you presently have the subs HPF'd at? What is your crossover frequency?

[Trshot]

Tops and bottoms are crossed at either 100 or 110., I can't recall which at the moment...I'm using MRX515 tops

[WK154]

Here is a good discussion on your dilemma.   http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/LivePerformanceCategory/acapella-33/370780-
Auto setup may need to be set aside. You need to play with the DRPA some more and 100 crossover seems to high. Room acoustics will affect that.
BTW what was wrong with the answers from   http://www2.dbxpro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=3224      ?

[Ampli]

Just to let u know there is a sort of way to link the lr with the aux
If u link them to a vca u can control them simultanios
I always link the masters of the aux to a vca to have a quick way to lower the auxes in case of feedback

[RoadRanger]

Just to let u know there is a sort of way to link the lr with the aux
If u link them to a vca u can control them simultanios
I always link the masters of the aux to a vca to have a quick way to lower the auxes in case of feedback

I didn't think you could put the LR in a VCA - I'll check it out .

[RoadRanger]

Tops and bottoms are crossed at either 100 or 110., I can't recall which at the moment...I'm using MRX515 tops

And the subs have what for a HPF? It should be 35 or 40 Hz. BTW "punch" is up around 100Hz so you might want to try lowing the crossover to 80Hz. Bridged CE4000's are way too much for those MR528S, just run them like the others, one on each side of a single CE4000. You may have already "flabbed" them out (damaged the suspensions) and need reconing, especially if you were running with no HPF on them .

[Trshot]

Sorry RR, you did ask for HPF and I didn't include that in my response, yes, I'm at  35hz.
How am I overpowered if the rule is twice the RMS as the speaker rating? The CE is at 2800w @ 4ohms and the 528's run at 600w cont./1600w program/3200w peak. I checked the suspension and voice coils when I first bought them used.  The subs sound great with program music running.  So by lowering to xover 80hz I'll be putting the punch in the tops correct?

[RoadRanger]

You've probably be a bit less muddy if you raised the HPF to 40. The rating you quoted is the 100 hour rating I think - if you're happy with 100 hours of life then running at the program rating is fine (1600w). 2800w ... nah. Those who want their subs to last a few years usually keep it to 1.5x the continuous rating - 1200w in this case. And how did you check the suspensions - did you verify that the FS of the drivers is where it's supposed to be at least? What happens is the suspensions weaken due to excess excursion and the drivers are no longer tuned to the box.
http://www.eminence.com/support/understanding-loudspeaker-data/
http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/MRX%20Series/MRX528S.pdf
http://www.djchat.com/showthread.php/116119-Need-Amp-Suggestions-for-MRX-528-sub

[Trshot]

I can raise it up to 40hz, it certainly can't hurt. The 100hr rating is JBL's so called torture test. Meaning their speaker designs have been ran at full capacity for a 100 hrs straight and will survive, not the shelf life of the speaker before it needs to be reconed.
 
Basically what I checked was movement of the cone and its connection to the basket and voice coil along with making sure the voice coil didn't have any restrictions in its movement. As mentioned if I play any programmed music, Michael Jacksons Thriller for example the subs sound  great...

[Wynnd]

I've noticed that some subs sound quite muddy.  I'm running ZXA1 subs and tops.  (Yes, I know that's a lot less PA than most of you want, but it works for me.  After all, my 760 Leslie only goes to 118 DBC and the EV ZXA1s go to 127 dbc measured.  And I really don't like stage volumes that loud.)  The EVs subs are tight and that works so well for me.  I've also set my DRPA up with just a stereo signal to the subs and  jumped to the satellites, and I've got a second setting that runs stereo satellites and mono subs, and I've got a third setting that has stereo satellites and stereo subs.  Three different configurations with different levels of connection complexity.  I can't hear any differences between them.  (And all the differences are in the sub connections.)