Thinking about DL32R for church praise team

[Kblue]

Hi, I just joined the forum hoping I get some advice.

My church(200-300 people) has been using mackie VLZ pro 24 for 12 years...but it has some mic inputs don't work... started acting weird...
Having issue with Keyboard sound...
Praise team wanted to buy new key board of course...but I think it is time to change mixer... a few years ago I tried to change to Onyx 24 channel  but no approval.  Now, they agreed to change mixer... And I don't see Onyx 24 channel any more... and I don't want to buy 2404 VLZ4...
I always wanted to buy mixer with built-in compressor... And i found DL32R...
 
Anyway, I have been reading manual of master Fader without DL32R... there is limit in understanding it without playing DL32R...

My plan is simply to replace VLZ pro 24 with DL32R and once DL32R is set up, the set up will stay almost permanently...
I would like to hear comments on this...


Also, one question (stupid) is once DL32R set up by iPAD, what will happen if I turned off iPAD and DL32R and turned on only DL32R a few days later?
Will DL32R be loaded up with previous configuration without iPAD?  I would like to know if pre-configured DL32R can be operated without iPAD just by turning on the power like analog mixer...  Thank You   

[sam.spoons]

I have a DL1608 and it is a brilliant little mixer but, while it will retain the settings from it's last shut down on the absence of a connected iPad I wouldn't use it or the DL32R for what you want. Without it iPad connected (and then only by wifi on the DL32R) it's only marginally better than a doorstop.

Depending on budget (and input requirements) consider an Allen and Heath Qu16/24 or a Behringer X32 Producer/Compact/Full Console as they all have full control without the need for a tablet/iPad. The iPad is a brilliantly useful adjunct to the mixer but is not an absolute requirement because all those mentioned have a full complement of physical controls.

I have an X32 Compact and Rack and both are superb mid sized mixers. The latter has very limited control onboard and though it is theoretically possible to access all parameters from the physical controls I wouldn't want to try to run a show without the iPad.

I would definitely endorse the move to digital and if maximum ease of use is required the A&H Qu 16/24 is the closest to an analogue mixer paradigm. Otherwise the X32 offer the best bang/buck ratio.

[Rdmitch]

Thanks for asking the questions here, at least you will get honest answers from people actually using the product.
No one here has any interest in selling you anything.
The unit most likely will retain the last setting it was left at, but also remember at the end of your
last session, save it on your iPad and you will always have it ready to go. I even save a second copy and just title it back up.  That way if I want to play with the program off line at home I can tweak away and never worry about losing the last setup.
If you have an iPad I recommend downloading the app....it's free and you can play around with it all you want and get a feel for how it works.
Most us here have been happy with the product line, except for a few functions we all hope will improve soon.

It's easy to use and learn and offers a lot of bang for the buck.  Remember though, there is NO screen on the mixer, so if you forget the iPad, of let the battery die you are in major trouble. Always plan ahead with these units and make sure your back up plan is solid.  Maybe keep a spare iPad ( get a used one on ebay) and keep it at the church. 
As Sam said a minute ago, you have to have the iPad !

I will respectfully disagree with the notion of the x32. While it's a great little board,(and yes I own one too) unless you want a major learning curve it's not an easy board to use. Lots of screens and settings, routings, input assigns, and overall I think it's kind of a pain in the rear. Plus it's heavy to move . While I know your looking at a more permanent install, your either going to run a lot of wire or use the x32 remote app which again is limited and difficult.  Just try to find a master volume control on the app...I still haven't found it on the X-air app !

I'm sure others here will chime in since we have such a active group of people here.

All the best of luck in any choice you make.

[WK154]

Kblue you need to find a mixer with wired control or built in control. I would not recommend the DL32R. I would not want to explain to the Church council why the sound system was not controllable. Please come back for next weeks service. 
The right tool for the job is what I recommend and it's not live mixers especially for untrained operators.

[dpdan]

I am going to spew my opinion here too...

The Mackie DL32R is an absolutely wonderful product PERIOD!

So is the Allen & Heath Qu line of mixers, I have them both and love and use them both.

By your post Kblue, it sounds to me as though you already know that the church's sound system will be used
without an operator a good part of the time, and perhaps without anyone even there that actually knows anything about it.

To purchase any digital console of any kind and expect it to come on with the master "PA SYSTEM ON/OFF" switch is sometimes possible, along with the lights and thermostat.
I know from experience that an analoge mixer is going to excell at this, mainly because it does not need to be "powered down" properly like most digital mixers require, and like a computer,
you should not just kill the power when you're done.

Here is the answer to one of your questions,...

Will the DL32R be loaded up with previous configuration without iPAD?  I would like to know if pre-configured DL32R can be operated without iPAD just by turning on the power like analog mixer...  Thank You

YES! But I would not ever recommend a digital mixer without an experienced operator that KNOWS what he/she is doing.

Let me explain a little further, today, most digital consoles are just as stable as the analog variety, but there is way more to the digital mixer, because it is capable of far more than one can imagine at first onlook.
 
There are people here on this forum that provide their opinion and don't even use the DL32R,  I believe you are asking about buying a DL32R for your church.
I have used my DL32R now for close to one hundred events in a year, and it is 1000% reliable along with the iPad and Apple Express and Extreme routers.

And for my last arrogant "opinion" even though it is rather harsh, but completely experience based, I would not take a behringer mixer if it was free.

The right tool for the job is what I recommend and it's not live mixers especially for untrained operators.

Some excellent truth there.
Peace out   

[WK154]

Kblue, DPdan and I rarely agree on much of anything but in this case the reason for untrained operators is the most compelling and we agree. There are companies that specialize in this kind of environment and it's not Behringer or A&H or Mackie. They have been here for decades. Polycom the leader, ClearOne, Biamp all have lots of experience in this kind of installation. Yes, Yamaha, Soundcraft, A&H, Behringer and many other live mixer manufacturers are found in churches but mostly because someone knows how to run them. The companies I mentioned are quite familiar with Corporate and Church installs where on/off, mute, volume are the only controls necessary. My wife's classroom install was one of these. Front panel lock and volume control. A great solution for knob twiddlers and creative students. Check them out.
My favorite for my usage is this.
http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=355.0
 

[Kblue]

Thank You very much for great advice... I really appreciate...

In permanently installed environment, it is good thing if no one can change it...
With my current mixer, when I am not there and Mic has no sound coming out of speaker, people change things until they figure out MIC is not plugged into right port or batter is dead

That's why I am happy when I wasn't able to see control panel on DL32R...

But this seems to invite other problems...there are some events that I am not aware of or not able to attend...
Then I will have the following problem.

I would not want to explain to the Church council why the sound system was not controllable at last night wedding.

Portable device like iPAD doesn't go well either with permanent installation... I am a believer that I will not have iPAD when I actually need to use it.
(I lost three iphones last year. )

As recommended here, I checked A&H qu-24...This unit appears very promising...(it appears that I don't need iPAD as it has full blown control panel and screen for graphics).  I am gonna study their manual and ask some questions


Thank YOU Again 






 

 

[gerenm63]

I'll "third" the recommendation of Biamp for automixers. They work quite well for what they're intended -- great for speech-based, and conferences. They can be interfaced with various hardware interfaces, such as those from Crestron, for this instances when manual control and "programming" is required.

However ...

If you have "live" situations, such as a praise band or orchestra, then these systems are not what you want, at least not for the entire system. But, I'll also agree with WK (with whom I often disagree ) that a digital mixer such as a Mackie DL or a Behringer X32/Midas T32 would not be a good choice if your operators are untrained. I've found that it's easier for inexperienced operators to wrap their heads around analog boards -- even complex boards like the big Allen & Heath, Yamaha, and others.

I'll also mention that Peavey and Crest Audio have lines of mixers that are specially designed with house of worship installations in mind. You won't find them at your local Guitar Center, though. I'd contact Charles Cassell at Audio Associates. Charles has years of experience in working with and designing systems like what you're looking for. He can be reached at 410-964-1212. You can tell him that I referred you.

[Kblue]

Just FYI

My ultimate goal is a good sounding for live performance by praise team...It has to be noticeably better than mackie VLZ pro 24
if not, I will also have to explain to Church council why.

We had Mackie VLZ pro 24 for 12 years... There are a few folks in our church who think they know how to use it...
Main reason I am interested in DSP mixer is its in-built compressor/gate, 4-band EQ etc...
With my current mackie,  I can't even dream to have individual compressor for each of singers, guitar, etc (about 10 inputs) because of space.
I also like dynamic range of new pre-amp compared to my mackie where I have to hit pre fairly hard to make a good sound( i have about 300ft cable runs between mic and mixer)...
 

[WK154]

It's going to take a lot more than a mixer to get better sound and without a LOT more info and a view of the venue, no-one here would claim such a possibility. Don't even have a point of reference. What's with the 300 ft. of cable?

P.S. you might want to update your profile on where you are.

[WK154]

"However ...

If you have "live" situations, such as a praise band or orchestra, then these systems are not what you want, at least not for the entire system. But, I'll also agree with WK (with whom I often disagree ) that a digital mixer such as a Mackie DL or a Behringer X32/Midas M32 would not be a good choice if your operators are untrained. I've found that it's easier for inexperienced operators to wrap their heads around analog boards -- even complex boards like the big Allen & Heath, Yamaha, and others."


My turn to disagree  . I would not throw hundreds of knobs at the uninitiated (analog). My experience especially in schools and other places is that it's always a challenge for someone to keep their fingers off the knobs. They may be able to get a sound eventually out of the unit but what a sound? I have used the XAP800 in live performances and with great success. The pre's for example are quite good, no 20 cent op-amps,  a lot more linear and faster with $6 op amps and better matched low noise JFets. Try 15 eq's, compressors and delays in addition to the traditional 3. Crossovers etc. Full matrix routing, test signal generator and the list goes on. Setup requires experience, operating very little.

[Kblue]

The reason I said better sound is to give some reference point about what I need to those who suggesting polycom or biamp...
I would have to explain church council why I installed mixer made by a company who builds speech-device like phone and video conf... 

I found compress was very important for live vocal...specially for female singers whose voice becomes so sharp and loud all of sudden at high tone...
And many times, a guest speaker comes too close to condenser mic with loud voice...

[WK154]

You also forgot the thousands of churches. It clearly depends on your level of experience and confidence since it will ultimately rest on your shoulders. Try not to make too many assumptions in your search. 
Cheers

[Kblue]

What's with the 300 ft. of cable?

Straight run of  about 15 cables, each shield/twisted pair of AWG 22(don't remember it was solid or stranded wire),
both end terminated by XLR female and male.
XLR male ports plugged directly to mixer XLR ports.
XLR females are mounted on patch bay where 8 mic's, keyboard(s), and guitar(s) are connected via XLR, or XLR/DI/ 1/4".
All of lines carry 48V phantom power while there is only one condenser mic.  (VLZ pro has no individual phantom control)

And we are using wireless stage monitor that singers are "hating" because it has only one channel...
(This single-channel monitor decision is made by Church council...)
 


 

[Kblue]

You also forgot the thousands of churches.

I am wondering what mixer they are using for their praise team...