Master Fader 4.5 Released!

[Keyboard Magic]

Less than the suggested 15 minute wait for the DL1608 to update and no meltdowns whatsoever so far. MF 4.5 runs very smooth on the iPad Air 2 hard connected to the DL. I don’t have anything until October so I can ring everything out before the next gig, phew! All iToys are on iOS 10. Running it wirelessly with the updates will be the test.

We will see! 

[Rdmitch]

The band I'm working for this week never updates anything until I give them a thumbs up. I want to keep 4.5 on my air2 since I need to work with it for the shows I use my board for.
I have 2 other iPads to use this weekend both with 4.0 loaded and ready to go, totally compatable with their system so I see no reason to dump it fro my iPad Air.
Am just curious if 4.5 on a remote iPad would be able to run 4.0 on the mixer.

[Keyboard Magic]

Rdmitch:

Never tried that, mixing versions of MF. One would think that it would work okay, but I kinda have a feeling that if you ran 4.5 on the remote iPad with 4.0 firmware on the mixer at the gig, the remote iPad and MF 4.5 just wouldn't connect to the mixer at all.

If you set up at home and the iPad in question was connected to your home wireless network, MF 4.5 would try to update the firmware on your DL (1608 or 32) as soon as you loaded MF and connected to the DL either docked or wirelessly (DL32) .

Please note that I have never updated the firmware on the DL1608 any other way than docked or just hard connected, so I'm really not sure about a firmware update done via wireless. It's (DL1608) supposed to be able to update wirelessly though.

I hope this makes some sense to you?  Maybe some of our more learned Colleagues can chime in on this one? 

[Michael Welter]

Am just curious if 4.5 on a remote iPad would be able to run 4.0 on the mixer.

Nope. It won't work. As soon as you connect your iPad Air 2 to the DL, it will require an update to the firmware on the DL before it will allow you to load a show.

[RoadRanger]

As an aside - the firmware on an X-Air is separate from the apps and you can mostly mix and match the firmware and apps. I suspect that works as long as the firmware is the same age or newer than the app? OTOH their ability to keep up the apps with newer firmware features is pretty dismal - their iOS app in particular is looooong overdue for an update .

[rolandvg99]

As an aside - the firmware on an X-Air is separate from the apps and you can mostly mix and match the firmware and apps. I suspect that works as long as the firmware is the same age or newer than the app? OTOH their ability to keep up the apps with newer firmware features is pretty dismal - their iOS app in particular is looooong overdue for an update .

This is one of the weaknesses with locking stuff to platform dependent apps. I understand that you need the latest software with the latest firmware for all functions to work, but common parameters could easily have been made to work. With an open protocol like OSC users could map what they need regardless of what MF does.

Edit: grammar

[nedorama]

As an aside - the firmware on an X-Air is separate from the apps and you can mostly mix and match the firmware and apps. I suspect that works as long as the firmware is the same age or newer than the app? OTOH their ability to keep up the apps with newer firmware features is pretty dismal - their iOS app in particular is looooong overdue for an update .

This is one of the weaknesses with locking stuff to platform deoendent apps. I understand that you need the latest software with the latest firmware for all functions to work, but common parameters could easily have been made to work. With an open protocol like OSC users could map what they need regardless of what MF does.

Actually not. If newer features are introduced through software and hardware, a firmware update would be required sometimes for hardware with one OS or multiple OS supported. OSC is a control spec, whereas Master Fader is control and more - you're harnessing the power of your iPad. Very different from using a tablet with OSC or touch OSC to control a 01v96 - it's just sending MIDI.

[rolandvg99]

As an aside - the firmware on an X-Air is separate from the apps and you can mostly mix and match the firmware and apps. I suspect that works as long as the firmware is the same age or newer than the app? OTOH their ability to keep up the apps with newer firmware features is pretty dismal - their iOS app in particular is looooong overdue for an update .

This is one of the weaknesses with locking stuff to platform deoendent apps. I understand that you need the latest software with the latest firmware for all functions to work, but common parameters could easily have been made to work. With an open protocol like OSC users could map what they need regardless of what MF does.

Actually not. If newer features are introduced through software and hardware, a firmware update would be required sometimes for hardware with one OS or multiple OS supported. OSC is a control spec, whereas Master Fader is control and more - you're harnessing the power of your iPad. Very different from using a tablet with OSC or touch OSC to control a 01v96 - it's just sending MIDI.

OSC is not MIDI, get your "facts" straight. It's a network protocol just like what Master Fader uses, but it's open source and not a proprietary protocol made unavailable to others. StereoScope and OSCulator translates OSC to MIDI, so yes, the Yamaha is MIDI, but I'm not talking directly to that one. Motu uses OSC and JSON. The only thing the iPad adds to a DL1608 is recording to a docked device. Everything else can be done by pure protocol.

It should be straight forward to grey out functions not available in the firmware in MF 4.5. Newest software should have no problems with manipulating old firmware unless there are complete overhauls of the underlaying structure (address changes and so forth). In theory MF 4.5 should be able to control the basics of even the oldest revision of the DL1608 without needing to upgrade firmware. The other way around could be more problematic, and certainly one needs the latest of everything to utilize all new functions, but straight fader adjustment, muting, paning should be possible with all iterations of the MF without needing a download. Of course one needs the latest of everything to utilize all new functions. This is just Mackie being attracted to/forced by the Apple planned obsolescence policy.

The first thing Mackie mentions about their DL series in their faq section:

1. What does a DL Series mixer do? What does the iPad do?
It’s simple. The mixer itself does all the heavy lifting.
Onyx mic pres amplify the signal. High-end AD converters convert this to digital. The powerful DSP chip processes and mixes this through the low latency mix engine. What’s missing? Control. And that’s where the iPad comes in. It is the control surface, controlling the DSP and mixer parameters but no audio processing occurs in the iPad at all. All the magic happens in the mixer itself which is powerful and able to produce undeniably professional sound quality.

A little scenario for you: A costumer of mine has a DL1608 with a docked iPad in a remote location with no access to Wi-Fi. A musician visits the place and brings his own iPad as he owns a DL1608 himself. That musician has a newer revision of the MF installed and updates the firmware. He does his stuff, leaves and the very next day I get a complaint from a seriously angry costumer that quote: "I want to swap this Mackie (and some words I´m not allowed to utter) for something that works." His only needs was to move a fader up and down and mute a CD player. Which he couldn't because his iPad couldn't connect due to a ridiculous decision to match firmware with software at all costs. End of story: He told his colleagues about this and they all bought conventional analogue mixers from another brand.

[MarkDMcBride]

Solved my problem.

My DL32R was configured for a IP address and not DHCP.

It seems that MF 4.5 updates and comes up as DHCP and not the IP address that it was configured for.

I used another ipad to select another IP address and that one update the DL32R.

I am happy now.

[RoadRanger]

A little scenario for you: A costumer of mine has a DL1608 with a docked iPad in a remote location with no access to Wi-Fi. A musician visits the place and brings his own iPad as he owns a DL1608 himself. That musician has a newer revision of the MF installed and updates the firmware. He does his stuff, leaves and the very next day I get a complaint from a seriously angry costumer that quote: "I want to swap this Mackie (and some words I´m not allowed to utter) for something that works." His only needs was to move a fader up and down and mute a CD player. Which he couldn't because his iPad couldn't connect due to a ridiculous decision to match firmware with software at all costs. End of story: He told his colleagues about this and they all bought conventional analogue mixers from another brand.

I've yet to be convinced that Mackie brought in real world sound and installation guys (particularly at the low end) to consult on their design. OTOH Behringer had the benefit of watching the deployment of the DL1608 in designing theirs - in fact we know that the X-Air was delayed at least once for an almost total redesign. I'd have to say I'd not have predicted that the strict lockstep between firmware and app was a bad idea - but I don't see why they couldn't "fix" that in future releases? Instead of that lame obsolete "classic" version I'd have a "simple" mode in the latest and greatest, maybe even the default not having comps, gates, subgroups, DCAs, etc - only the"vintage" EQ and other controls to make it as close to a MixWiz as possible. As you found out there's a BIG installs market for a simple analog-like mixer that doesn't take a rocket scientist to operate. Mackie could dominate there. Behringer is crippled by their Uri-itis but unfortunately Mackie seems crippled by their non-market focused marketing droids. The good news for all is none have done much better than their competition so far...

[rolandvg99]

BTW. My DL1608 upgrade went smooth as butter on my IOS 9.3.5 iPad 3rd gen.

[nedorama]

As an aside - the firmware on an X-Air is separate from the apps and you can mostly mix and match the firmware and apps. I suspect that works as long as the firmware is the same age or newer than the app? OTOH their ability to keep up the apps with newer firmware features is pretty dismal - their iOS app in particular is looooong overdue for an update .

This is one of the weaknesses with locking stuff to platform deoendent apps. I understand that you need the latest software with the latest firmware for all functions to work, but common parameters could easily have been made to work. With an open protocol like OSC users could map what they need regardless of what MF does.

Actually not. If newer features are introduced through software and hardware, a firmware update would be required sometimes for hardware with one OS or multiple OS supported. OSC is a control spec, whereas Master Fader is control and more - you're harnessing the power of your iPad. Very different from using a tablet with OSC or touch OSC to control a 01v96 - it's just sending MIDI.

OSC is not MIDI, get your "facts" straight. It's a network protocol just like what Master Fader uses, but it's open source and not a proprietary protocol made unavailable to others. StereoScope and OSCulator translates OSC to MIDI, so yes, the Yamaha is MIDI, but I'm not talking directly to that one. Motu uses OSC and JSON. The only thing the iPad adds to a DL1608 is recording to a docked device. Everything else can be done by pure protocol.

It should be straight forward to grey out functions not available in the firmware in MF 4.5. Newest software should have no problems with manipulating old firmware unless there are complete overhauls of the underlaying structure (address changes and so forth). In theory MF 4.5 should be able to control the basics of even the oldest revision of the DL1608 without needing to upgrade firmware. The other way around could be more problematic, and certainly one needs the latest of everything to utilize all new functions, but straight fader adjustment, muting, paning should be possible with all iterations of the MF without needing a download. Of course one needs the latest of everything to utilize all new functions. This is just Mackie being attracted to/forced by the Apple planned obsolescence policy.

The first thing Mackie mentions about their DL series in their faq section:

1. What does a DL Series mixer do? What does the iPad do?
It’s simple. The mixer itself does all the heavy lifting.
Onyx mic pres amplify the signal. High-end AD converters convert this to digital. The powerful DSP chip processes and mixes this through the low latency mix engine. What’s missing? Control. And that’s where the iPad comes in. It is the control surface, controlling the DSP and mixer parameters but no audio processing occurs in the iPad at all. All the magic happens in the mixer itself which is powerful and able to produce undeniably professional sound quality.

A little scenario for you: A costumer of mine has a DL1608 with a docked iPad in a remote location with no access to Wi-Fi. A musician visits the place and brings his own iPad as he owns a DL1608 himself. That musician has a newer revision of the MF installed and updates the firmware. He does his stuff, leaves and the very next day I get a complaint from a seriously angry costumer that quote: "I want to swap this Mackie (and some words I´m not allowed to utter) for something that works." His only needs was to move a fader up and down and mute a CD player. Which he couldn't because his iPad couldn't connect due to a ridiculous decision to match firmware with software at all costs. End of story: He told his colleagues about this and they all bought conventional analogue mixers from another brand.

thanks for clarifying. I did oversimplify on OSC, but aware of it's origins at CNMAT and that it does much more than MIDI. I also thought the iPad was doing more of the heavy lifting, but thanks for correcting me there as well

As for your customer, sorry, but that's his own fault. Most people I know don't allow any outside users to change settings, update firmware on their equipment (!) or other items without express approval from them. And if all he's using a DL1608 for is a fader and musing a CD player, there are a lot of great analog mixers that can do that for a lot less. Don't confuse poor judgement on your customer's part with a company's decision to link software and firmware updates.

[rolandvg99]

Thing is the DL1608 was updated by someone who hadn't asked for permission. Sure the costumer could have taken his precautions, but thing is that if Mackie didn't hard lock the firmware to the software, he would be happily unknowing of the new features in the new firmware and this would never been an issue.

[nedorama]

Understand you're not a fan of the software and firmware link, but with a lot of connected devices, this is standard as you have new features. In consumer electronics, both Sphero, the Wonder Workshop Dash and Dot, and Ozobot all require you to update the firmware with some new releases, and once the firmware is updated, you need to update the app or it won't connect. I'm not a programmer so can't tell you the pro's and con's, but there has to be good reason to do this. On several of these, that update is with iOS and Android & Kindle apps, so it may not be a one OS thing.

[Ampli]

Im not sure but, if im correct if u force and firmware update u can go back to an early version
Did this for mf classic and went back to mf4
So u should be able to go back from mf4.5 back mf4