DL1608 with Bose L1

[terrysisco]

Anyone currently using their mixer with the Bose L1 system?
My band has 2 towers and 2 subs... 6 piece 80's pop group.

These systems are supposed to out perform traditional speaker systems with the speaker array configuration.
Also designed to sit behind the band and eliminate the need for wedges as well as allow the band to hear what the crowd is hearing... allowing them to be more "in" the performance and less disconnected.

Would love feedback from anyone that has gigged live with this system.

[Wynnd]

DL1608 works just fine.  There are some things that I do, I have a DriveRack PX between the speakers and the mixer.  Not really necessary, but you might want to EQ them flat before taking them to a club.  (Or not.  It's a personal preference thing.)  I can't think of any powered speaker system that couldn't be well set up to work with Mackie's DL series mixers.  I've gotten to the point of liking 2 ipad minis for mixing from the audience.  (For 16 channels.)  Many who are using the Bose L1 speakers have them in typical PA locations.  Depends upon how loud the band is.

[RoadRanger]

One of my bands uses two L1's up front - band is too loud to use them in back. Unless the drummer is using Hotrods, eDrums, or is super talented and trained they are just going to be too loud...

[stevegarris]

I heard one of those systems the other day. It was a single stack, for an acoustic solo act, guitar, vocals and some tracks. He was using a small, analog board. They are advertised as 180 deg coverage, but the mid's only cover to about 150 deg's. As long as you're in that 150 range, I thought it sounded pretty good. This was a low volume event

[Wynnd]

No one needs a digital board to work with L1s.  But there's no reason not to outside of money.  the things that make it truly worthwhile is the many aux outs available for monitor mixer or IEMs.  Compression and Gates can be useful, but if you don't know what I'm talking about, put those on the back burner.  There's a great level of complexity on the DL mixer's ipad app.  for the 16 channel one, there are about 100 screens with about 1400 controls.  If you've ever seen a MixWiz, they only have about 400 controls on the board.  And if you need the 32 channel one, there is the direct to hard drive multichannel recording capability.  So is this a case where you already have the Bose L1 or are you experiencing feedback issues and you think it might cure them?  Do you already have a DL mixer?  Just wondering why the query?  (And if you're having feedback issues, nothing will fix that without backing the sound level down.  Get a DB meter and find out how loud you are onstage.  the L1 go up to 118 db at 3 feet.  Not real loud, but louder than I enjoy playing.  (About the maximum of my Leslies.  That should be soloing level)  I really enjoy a band with a stage volume of about 100 dbc.

[terrysisco]

I've had the DL  system for about 4 years with a traditional speaker system. Now with a different band with the L1's. So I have a pretty good handle on mixing with the DL.

no amps on stage, all direct. Acoustic drums.
We've just not performed with the Bose system yet... got a gig coming up mid January and wanted feedback from anyone with actual live experience. We're currently rehearsing with them though.

[stevegarris]

I was under the impression that those were designed to be a mono stack. Do you have a feel for the effect of comb filtering when using (2) stacks with this system?

[terrysisco]

Not sure what "comb filtering" is. Forgive my ignorance.

[stevegarris]

Not sure what "comb filtering" is. Forgive my ignorance.

In short, it is destructive interference caused by the arrival time being different between the 2 speakers. Most PA systems have horns that are between 60 and 90 degrees (horiz), so you only have the problem with the sub's (power ally down the middle). I've been in many situations where I  would only run a mono stack with my 90 deg tops. Those 180 degree speakers will have peaks and valleys throughout the room. Using only one will sound far better than two, in any room.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-what-exactly-comb-filtering

You can hear it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHjdh-Vka-g

Also, the Bose system is not designed and will not be as loud as a conventional 2-way box.

[terrysisco]

Interesting and very informative!
Many thanks!!
Is there any possibility of panning all of the instruments and vocals hard left and hard right respectively so that nothing is coming out of both stacks... i.e. Lead Vocals, keys and 1 guitar hard left and bass, backing vocals and guitar 2 hard right? So as not to double the output of any 1 sound source?

And as I understand the Bose system, while it may not be as loud, the sound propagates more evenly throughout a room thus not needing to be as loud to reach the back of the room and be more even throughout the entire room without being extremely loud directly in front of the stage as is required with a conventional speaker array. Gotta turn up to hit the back of the room which causes the sound in front of the stage to be uncomfortably loud for those poor folks.
Or so the engineers at Bose would have one believe from their demo videos.

[stevegarris]

Yes, that would eliminate any destructive interference. We often read about "dual PA's" which I've done, where there are 2 sets of mains on each side. The instruments are run through one pair, and the vocals through the other pair.

I think the Bose video is simply marketing. If you have good sound propagating through your conventional 2-way speaker, it will get to the back of the room. This simply requires SPL, which more directional and powerful speakers can do with ease.

[terrysisco]

I think I'll give that a go then, since we own 2 of the towers and 2 subs... I guess if we fight them too much and have to go to a more conventional setup, the Bose system holds its value well enough that we'll be able to sell them for a pretty decent set of EV's that will handle small to mid sized rooms... 100 people or less sized rooms.

[nedorama]

Terry - what is going through the PA from the band?

If you place them where normal PA speakers would go, you lose the benefit of the band being able to monitor from them, but a lot of that will depend on how many people have amps, etc.

With our PA, we try to KISS for 100 person crowds, and only the following goes into the DL1608:
Vocals
Bass (now that we have a sub, but he has his own amp)
Kick drum (now that we have a sub)
Keys (but keyboard player has a keyboard amp for monitoring)
Guitar amp (panned to other side of room or to taste to have even sound, or off depending on venue).

For gigs before the sub, it was just vocals and keys, and the rest of the band self mixing to the drum level. You'll find it's a lot easier to mix while playing when you have less elements to work on.

[terrysisco]

Everything,  except the drums. No amps.all direct.

[nedorama]

Then unless you have additional monitors, you'll have to place them behind the band so everyone can hear. There are larger rehearsal studios in the South bay that are big enough to rent for a few hours and set up your PA to try it out to see if it works and if the L1 is loud enough to compete with the drums. While I haven't used the Bose system, many people have said it's great for acoustic performers and coffeehouses, but doesn't work for louder bands. Renting a space to set up and try it is well worth the cost instead of trying to figure it out at a gig. It's how I figured out how to do aux-fed subs on the DL1608. I play guitar and sing in the band, and also have to mix, so I want to get most of it dialed in so that it's set and forget during the show. My rule is never "learn" to use a new piece of gear on a gig, be it an amp, pedal, rack gear, etc.