Author Topic: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation  (Read 134728 times)

RoadRanger

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2013, 02:27:28 AM »
Not a bad idea. But an RTA overlaid on the GEQ's would really make my day :) . Just having the slider knobs light up showing the feedback frequencies like the Peavey and Behringer GEQs do would be great :) .

sam.spoons

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2013, 07:23:36 AM »
+1  :thu:
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 03:05:24 PM by RoadRanger »

Kevin

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2013, 12:18:40 PM »
Quote
But an RTA overlaid on the GEQ's would really make my day :) . Just having the slider knobs light up showing the feedback frequencies like the Peavey and Behringer GEQs do would be great :)

Yep, that would be nice too, although I dont think it would be much extra work to take this a step further and pull up a FFT window, either from the solo bus or from each channel or output when you are in the EQ window.

None of these integrated RTA/FFT ideas would conceptually difficult to design, but would be non-trivial to implement, as in any of these cases, there would need to be a small bit of new DSP processing, additions to the communication protocol between DL and MF, new iPad display graphics and possibly the need to coordinate with multiple iPads. If Mackie could pull this off by the next release, that would be outstanding. OTOH, if its not already on the to-do list, then it might be a stretch to get it into 1.5.  As an interim step, just sending the solo bus to the 32 pin should only take one universal configuration setting and a small bit of code in the DSP to route the solo bus instead of LR bus to the 32 pin. No DL/MF communication changes, iPad graphics, or coordination between multiple iPads needed. It should be possible to add something like this to 1.5, even if its not already in the works.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 03:05:40 PM by RoadRanger »

RoadRanger

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2013, 02:09:43 PM »
Yah know - I'm guessing that the feature set for V1.5 is already set so V1.6 or later is what we're looking at. I'm just hoping that the 4+ months between V1.3 and V1.4 isn't going to become the norm :-\ .
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 03:05:53 PM by RoadRanger »

robbocurry

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2013, 08:00:58 AM »
Hey RR & Kevin!
You guys are programmers aren't you? Is there any way the DL/MF can be hacked and modified code inserted?
Would it even be possible for completely new 3rd party software to be written and published legitimately?
I own a small video production company and a few years back the Canon range of DSLRs were hacked by a project called "Magic Lantern". This gave some requested features that the users wanted when shooting video.
I'd be willing to donate to a pool for someone to buy and investigate the innards of a DL, and or MF.
That's the way the Magic Lantern project started. Eventually Canon added most of the hacked features.
If Mackie were open to it and 3rd party software was an improvement, they'd probably sell more DLs?
I'd be happy to pay £50 and download an alternative app (if it was better) from the AppStore.
Every time I buy a new app it adds to the love and useability of my iPhone & iPads.
I'm happy to wait for Mackie to update MF but it would be nice to have an alternative!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 01:37:52 PM by robbocurry »
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RoadRanger

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2013, 01:37:22 PM »
^ That's pretty interesting - and anything is possible ;) . But I certainly don't have the time and inclination. It would be a HUGE undertaking :o .

robbocurry

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2013, 01:41:34 PM »
Any unemployed programmers out there up to the challenge ???
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Kevin

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2013, 03:18:05 PM »
Quote
Any unemployed programmers out there up to the challenge

It seems that a big reason that the Magic Lantern project was successful was that by hacking the Canon 5D, it was possible to turn a ~2000 DSLR camera into something comparable to a ~25K pro video camera. That's a pretty huge payoff, which is going to attract attention and funds from all sorts of people - independent film makers, pro videographers, etc.

I'm not sure how you'd get a similar payoff out of hacking the DL. You'd have to come up with a killer feature that is only available in much more expensive pro audio mixers. Even if you were able to implement everything on the Mackie's user feature request list, you'd still just basically have a smaller form factor PreSonus - which would be great for all of us, but I dont see the pro audio industry getting too excited about it. Maybe there is some killer feature that isnt on the list that would be worth the effort, but I cant see it. For hacking, you'd probably be better off starting out with a couple of XAP800's where you have more I/O and a documented communication protocol. Then you'd just need to focus on doing a nice user interface.

Now if you DID want to hack the DL,  the best place to start would be to crack the communication protocol, which you could probably do with a network protocol analyzer like Wireshark and an ethernet hub between the router and DL. This would require a working knowledge of TCP/IP and a lot of tedious work to figure out all of the various command and status message parameters. Not much payoff for an individual that I can see, although if you were a company that builds midi control interfaces, you could probably figure out enough to build a wireless physical fader interace like AbbaAgain wants and maybe sell enough to the theater industry to make the effort worthwhile. You could also write a new IOS app that would substitute for Master Fader, although those would just be cosmetic changes - ie better button locations, maybe an "all outputs" screen, etc. You might even be able to come up with some sort of vitual fader linking. To get features like output PEQs, submix busses, assigning the Aux'es pre/post compression, etc, you need to change the DSP code.  Getting into the DSP code would take some real heavy lifting. If WK154 gets around to tearing down his DL unit, then maybe we'll find out what type of DSP and whether Mackie left a JTAG port on the PCB (my guess is no JTAG header for cost reasons, but the traces are probably there to add one).

Bottom line - yes, the DL is probably hackable, but for the effort to payoff ratio, an unemployed programmer would be better off showing up on Mackie's doorstep and volunteer to help with in-house testing of the 1.5 release. If Mackie refuses, stand at the nearest busy intersection with a sign that says "will work for Master Fader v1.5 release" until they relent.  Then, when 1.5 releases, said programmer would have (a) a nicer mixer and (b) minor fame among 1000s of DL users, as the person who quit his/her day job to get 1.5 released on time. Said programmer could then spend the next month or two getting free beers in dive bars all over the world before everyone starts complaining about need for 1.6.

PS - now that I can do an FFT of my Aux outputs, I take back what I said about PEQs not being all that useful to me. Now I want PEQs on the outputs. I'd probably take that over grouping now - but what I still want the most is an integrated RTA.

PPS - a more useful hack (for me) would be an IOS hack so that I could forcibly assign 3rd party audio inputs and outputs where I want them, instead of having IOS trying to do it for me.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 04:23:42 PM by Kevin »

robbocurry

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2013, 08:14:06 PM »
Lol. I didn't think it would be easy, but that's a daunting list Kevin! That was informative, thank you for taking the time to post that.
I remember back on the old board someone mentioned fx plug ins and how they'd be happy to pay for them. Well, me too! Plug-ins or extra features, if they were useful and not a rip off, I'd go for it. Downside, I suppose, no free firmware updates from Mackie once they caught on....?
I suppose we might as well keep throwing suggestions at "user voice" in the off chance.
Is there even a link to user voice from the Mackie site anymore, if there is, it isn't very obvious?
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RoadRanger

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2013, 09:01:17 PM »
Is there even a link to user voice from the Mackie site anymore, if there is, it isn't very obvious?
Here it's carefully hidden in a Sticky:
http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=232.0
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 09:25:40 PM by RoadRanger »

robbocurry

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2013, 09:20:28 PM »
Good job you kept the link RR :thu: ;)
I wonder do they know they have no link?
Maybe they reckon all possible suggestions have been submitted....
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RoadRanger

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2013, 09:24:21 PM »
It's actually on this page of their's:
http://www.mackie.com/products/dlseries/specs/
:)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 09:26:14 PM by RoadRanger »

robbocurry

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2013, 09:32:11 PM »
Ahh, conspiracy over...
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Kevin

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2013, 02:45:17 AM »
Quote
I remember back on the old board someone mentioned fx plug ins and how they'd be happy to pay for them.

If Mackie made the DL's 32 pin interface assignable to any output bus, then in addition to assigning solo out, you could also assign one or two Aux's to the 32 pin out, run the Aux signal through an effect app on the iPad and bring it back to the DL  through the 32 pin iPad input. That would give you up to 2 more FX chains or 1 more FX chain plus solo - as long as your iPad is docked or on a cable.  Or you dock your iPhone to get the 2 FX chains and mix wirelessly on the DL.  If you want to keep the 32 pin outputs for recording, now you'd have the option to send a pair of Aux's to 32 pin instead of being forced to use L/R.

I dont think it would be very hard to make the two 32 pin out channels assignable in 1.5. That would open up a lot of 3rd party possibilities on IOS devices. Mackie can then market the DL as having expandable I/O and FX without any hardware changes or doing any heavy lifting in the DSP code.

Another application that might make cracking the DL/iPad comm protocol worthwhile, is a midi to wireless DL protocol converter box that could be configured to work with any midi control surface. This could be done initially with off the shelf parts and you could allow users to map whatever off-the-shelf midi control surface they want to DL fader and button moves. That could spin off a whole cottage industry for custom installation using the 1608 or 806 as a cheap wireless head end, with many options for inexpensive midi control surfaces as the primary client/operator interface.

Kevin

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2013, 10:32:58 PM »
someone's probably brought this up before, but does anyone have a use for the fader decibel readout display that is always at the top middle of the Master Fader App? I get what it is for, but it seems that it is taking up a lot of valuable real estate. How often do you really need to know the decibel level to 0.1 dB, as opposed to eyeballing it to 0.5 or 1 db with the faders? Also the text to either side that identifies the input channel and output. These labels are already much more visible at the bottom of the display. These three status indicators are right at the top of the display, which is prime real estate, but I never need to look at them.

It seems to me that if Mackie was looking for a place to add some new control buttons, it could be right where these low information items are currently located.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 12:26:21 AM by Kevin »