Wireless streaming to the DL1608

[BlendedMix]

I apologize for the length of this post even before I get started.  You have been so helpful on the boards, and I've learned a TON from reading what you and others have contributed.  That's a good thing, because I'm new to this game.  I got asked to help a PTO at an elementary school acquire and have a sound system installed.  The DL sounded perfect for the application for a lot of reasons, so here I am...in quest of knowledge.   

The system is in their "cafetorium."  They had what I guess was at least a 23 year old Ducane system from when the school was originally built.  So it's a big step up, and the music teacher is an older lady who has some technical knowledge, but not much.  There's the boring background...sorry.   

I felt the DL was the perfect system, because my hope is to get everything set up for the different types of performances they typically conduct (talent shows, presentations, plays, choir performances, etc.), and store them so that recalling them will have the appropriate inputs and levels at the touch of a button.  I think that is much more reasonable for them to learn than having someone truly understand all of the knobs and buttons that control a "traditional" analog mixing board.  We hope to make it as much of a "set it and forget it" type of approach as we can.  While I realize that flies in the face of what a really good sound engineer would ever recommend, the whole goal here is to make it as user friendly as possible.  As they learn the system, they can learn and do more.     

The biggest limitation I'm facing is with the music.  I've hit some barriers regarding the Airport Express, and the school districts tech dept. is up in arms about adding another network within the school.  The ultimate goal was: 

1.  Un-dock the iPad and have a few people trained on how to recall snap shots, and learn the basics of how to adjust the channel volumes. 

2.  Stream music via the Airport Express to supply backing tracks, which they utilize in many of their performances.

3.  ELIMINATE the need for anyone to be on the stage where the sound system is located in order to run it.  It is rack mounted inside a Gator Case on the side wall of the stage. 


Right now, we're using a Rapco adaptor with a 3.5mm jack and volume control that goes from either a CD player, computer, or iPhone output, and we have it running into a XLR mic input (channel 5 to be exact).  That seems to work just fine, and allows them to play music from up to 20 feet out in front of the stage (XLR cable length).

I would LOVE to find a way to make that more streamlined, but I'm fearful that they will ultimately not allow us to have another wireless network, even though I explained in detail that it would be password protected, and that it doesn't even need internet.  Apparently, they are concerned about the confusion it would cause school employees using wireless devices. 

I'm in a bit of a pickle, because I made this decision based on how easy it would ultimately be with the wireless streaming, but no one ever involved the tech dept., and we didn't see this issue coming. 

I'm open to any suggestions....      

     

[RoadRanger]

Keep in mind that if you are forced to use the school's wireless network that anyone on it with an iOS device can download the Master Fader or My Fader app and control the DL1608 - it has zero security built-in and normally relies upon being on a secured private wireless network .

[WK154]

Shades of yesteryear! Back in the 60' we ran into the almighty IT God anytime you quoted a "Computer". Most Scientists despised their involvement and we soon learned that there was a simple solution to the problem. We called them "Controllers" and the IT God vanished. Unfortunately your horse is out of the corral so closing the gate won't help. Ideally, what I call XDM   http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=355.0   would have served you well in this situation. That's a set it and forget it and no fingers on environment (front panel lockout). I know it well. I have been using it in this environment for many years (Middle School class room and auditorium). To deal with the streaming audio you may want to turn to the other solution in the 2.4 gig realm Bluetooth or the equivalent. I use a setup that actually takes the output of the DL and sends it to my speakers. Anything to rid myself of CABLES. In your case it would use any stereo output from an iPod etc and sent it to the DL. I have used it in close proximity to a 2.4 gig WIFI with no interference. It will use 2 input channels on the DL but I believe you probably have lots open. The unit will require a power source ie. batteries or AC. Here is their link  http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-W2  . I use their W3 (I'm PC based) you may want to look at their W2. Tell the tech dept. that you found a better solution that doesn't use WIFI, networks etc..

[Kevin]

You can set up the Express router so that it doesnt even broadcast its SSID. That way none of the school employees will even know that it exists, so no worries about confusion. Chances are that unless the schools IT folks are more resourceful than most, they wont even know that your DL network exists. You can also set a network password so that even if someone does find out what SSID to use  (eg if someone pokes around on your iPad), they will still need the password before they can access the mixer with another iPad or iPhone.

[WK154]

If you go the WIFI route make sure you operate in the 5 gig only range. A much cleaner environment for now. One note on the W2 it only has a 30' range the W3 has a 100' range.

[BlendedMix]

Keep in mind that if you are forced to use the school's wireless network that anyone on it with an iOS device can download the Master Fader or My Fader app and control the DL1608 - it has zero security built-in and normally relies upon being on a secured private wireless network .

Hi Road...I'm not going to use the school's wireless network.  That was made ABUNDANTLY CLEAR.       However, as someone else suggested, if there's a way to simply set up a network with the Airport Express, keep the SSID hidden, and require devices to enter a password for access...then I'm golden.  I'm far from an expert on that either, but maybe if I work in conjunction with the tech team I can get them on board, and heaven forbid, to actually help a little instead of serving as a roadblock.      

[BlendedMix]

You can set up the Express router so that it doesnt even broadcast its SSID. That way none of the school employees will even know that it exists, so no worries about confusion. Chances are that unless the schools IT folks are more resourceful than most, they wont even know that your DL network exists. You can also set a network password so that even if someone does find out what SSID to use  (eg if someone pokes around on your iPad), they will still need the password before they can access the mixer with another iPad or iPhone.

That sounds GREAT, and I hope that's something I can accomplish.  One snag is....they're already aware of the Airport Express.  In fact, it is in the tech groups possession currently, and apparently they've already had a few meetings of the minds to discuss it specifically.      It took a week just to get the iPad back and all they had to do was register it to the district and put the Master Fader app.  on it.  It's their job...and I get that.  I just have to find a way to mediate the thing and get it working.

I have no concerns about anyone gaining access to the iPad.  It is locked up in a Gator case, and if someone wants to go to that much trouble, it would be to steal the iPad anyway.

Sorry guys...I didn't mean to litter the board with a discussion on my logistical nightmare out of the box.  I appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts on it, and I'm going to sort through them now and hopefully find a way to find a solution.  If nothing else, it works how we have it now...it's just not as slick as it could be. 

BTW...the assistant principle is very well versed on the iPad, and she picked up on using the system VERY quickly.  So I still think we made a good decision, and after EQ'ing the room and getting some levels set, it sounds amazing.     

[WK154]

I'm fully aware of the turf battles and NIH factors with people that have been promoted to their incompetency level. The best solution I found is to bypass them with solutions outside of their control. The Audioengine is one such solution and the W3 frees one from the  i* control freaks (Apple). The cost is about $140. Good luck.

[BlendedMix]

Shades of yesteryear! Back in the 60' we ran into the almighty IT God anytime you quoted a "Computer". Most Scientists despised their involvement and we soon learned that there was a simple solution to the problem. We called them "Controllers" and the IT God vanished. Unfortunately your horse is out of the corral so closing the gate won't help. Ideally, what I call XDM   http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=355.0   would have served you well in this situation. That's a set it and forget it and no fingers on environment (front panel lockout). I know it well. I have been using it in this environment for many years (Middle School class room and auditorium). To deal with the streaming audio you may want to turn to the other solution in the 2.4 gig realm Bluetooth or the equivalent. I use a setup that actually takes the output of the DL and sends it to my speakers. Anything to rid myself of CABLES. In your case it would use any stereo output from an iPod etc and sent it to the DL. I have used it in close proximity to a 2.4 gig WIFI with no interference. It will use 2 input channels on the DL but I believe you probably have lots open. The unit will require a power source ie. batteries or AC. Here is their link  http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-W2  . I use their W3 (I'm PC based) you may want to look at their W2. Tell the tech dept. that you found a better solution that doesn't use WIFI, networks etc..

So...with this solution for $49.00, I get a transmitter for an Iphone, and a receiver that will take up two ports on the DL?  That's what it would take for the Airport Express anyway, so maybe I'm golden with that setup.

The million dollar question is...can you switch back to the MyFader app. on the iPhone while the music is streaming through the device?   

BTW...you completely lost me on that first part about the XDM.  Was that a complete hardware change out?  I read the post it linked to in the other thread, and it was like reading Greek to me.   

[BlendedMix]

I'm fully aware of the turf battles and NIH factors with people that have been promoted to their incompetency level. The best solution I found is to bypass them with solutions outside of their control. The Audioengine is one such solution and the W3 frees one from the  i* control freaks (Apple). The cost is about $140. Good luck.

Gotcha...and I looked it up.  The W3 sounds a little safer with the 100' range for an extra $100.00.  I can return the Airport Express and just tell them that we're going to go with the Rapco device.  Then I'll covertly add the AudioEngine device and we're golden!

Thanks for everyone's help! 

[WK154]

If you play the game you'll save yourself a lot of aggravation. I believe that what they don't know won't hurt them.

[BlendedMix]

If you play the game you'll save yourself a lot of aggravation. I believe that what they don't know won't hurt them.

...yeah, and I could kick myself for not coming to the boards sooner than I did, because I probably could have averted the whole situation altogether.  What chaps me about it is that they wanted NOTHING to do with it in the outset, and the district had no desire to do the install or have the tech group involved despite the Principal's requests.  Then AFTER it was all purchased with PTO money to help the school, and installed, THEN they wanted to intercede. 

Because of the need to possibly undock the iPad at times, I'm going to at least try to get them to set up the Airport Express network without a broadcast SSID, and see if I can get that to work so that I get maximum functionality.  If that doesn't fly...then I'll go to plan B, and the AudioEngine.  The limitation there seems to be that I can stream music, but would still lack the ability to control the mix via MyFader from a second device with the iPad docked.  At least I'm getting closer now....   

[WK154]

"BTW...you completely lost me on that first part about the XDM.  Was that a complete hardware change out?  I read the post it linked to in the other thread, and it was like reading Greek to me."
The units (XAP800) I'm using were designed for such applications but new would run you about $4K. Used the cost is far less. They require more of a learning curve but are certainly conquerable.
If their not using equipment that's 5 Gig capable then there really should not be a problem. It will never be seen on 2.4 gig network.
School District sounds a lot like LAUSD?

[BlendedMix]

I'm going to try the 5g idea and go from there.  Thanks again everyone. 

[Jerrylee]

What part didn't work for you?

Also keep in mind that if you are forced to use the school's wireless network that anyone on it with an iOS device can download the Master Fader or My Fader app and control the DL1608 - it has zero security built-in and normally relies upon being on a secured private wireless network .

I'm a little, ok a lot, confused about this statement. "Zero security built in"? Then what the heck do you call a password? And if their are tech savvy people out there that know how to hack into the express do you really think they are going to waste their time to hack your router, download the Mackie app, and the mess with your board? Do you really think people are that interested in messing with some random band who happens to be using a Mackie dl, or any other iPad controlled board? Seriously?