Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!

[Wynnd]

I've never lived with DCAs.  (Also never flown a plane, skydived, been attacked by a shark.....)  Now that I understand what one is, I can't think of anyplace where I need one.   Could just be my personal lack of experience with them.  (Probably)  OK, it might be nice to use with my two keyboards, but I did purchase two identical expression pedals and modified one so they had the same level of affect upon both keyboards when I place my foot right in the middle of the pedals.  So I don't even need it there.  (The expression pedals are much better in this case anyway.  Leaves my hands free to do other things.) 

[nottooloud]

Most of the mixers I use have DCAs available. They're useful for massive shows. On a 16 channel mixer? Not so much.

[RoadRanger]

AFAIK the only operational differences between DCAs and groups are:
Adjusting the group fader doesn't change the volume of a channel in all post-fader auxes, the main out and groups like a DCA does.
You can normally process a group as a group (like group compression), not so with DCAs.
You need groups to have matrixes.

Don't think I've ever seen a board that had VCAs/DCAs that didn't also have groups.

BTW with V2.0 I now run my reverb pre-fader so that I can put reverb on things that aren't in the main mix. Last night I was running 110dB+ and I still only had the kick in the mains - I was able to put reverb on the overhead without having it in the mains . With groups I'd normally just deselect that channel from the L&R and stay post-fader but this works OK for now. However I would like to keep all the channel's reverb send post-fader except for ones I don't need in the mains, hopefully Mackie will give us individual control over this soon like the X32 and Phonic mixers have - or at least groups.

[RoadRanger]

Most of the mixers I use have DCAs available. They're useful for massive shows. On a 16 channel mixer? Not so much.

That's my feeling as well - I'd much rather see groups first, the 1604 has two stereo groups. As I said it is kinda silly to have a "new, improved digital mixer" that lacks features that are on your "industry standard" analog mixer. But there are other things I'd much rather see them work on first ("high" control on channels switchable to a LPF or a new dedicated LPF on each, GEQ's on outputs switchable to parametrics, per-channel pre/post aux taps, etc).

[nottooloud]

Most of the mixers I use have DCAs available. They're useful for massive shows. On a 16 channel mixer? Not so much.

That's my feeling as well - I'd much rather see groups first, the 1604 has two stereo groups. As I said it is kinda silly to have a "new, improved digital mixer" that lacks features that are on your "industry standard" analog mixer. But there are other things I'd much rather see them work on first ("high" control on channels switchable to a LPF or a new dedicated LPF on each, GEQ's on outputs switchable to parametrics, per-channel pre/post aux taps, etc).

Agreed on all counts.

[Greg C.]

Now that I understand what one is, I can't think of anyplace where I need one.   Could just be my personal lack of experience with them.

While this is probably not applicable or desired by most of the folks on this board, you might find it interesting anyway. I make use of this VCA (DCA) technique for some bands along with the compression scheme and it's pretty cool. Groups are required too. Not for everyone but cool nonetheless.

Dave Rat's mixing technique (YouTube)

[WK154]

Now that I understand what one is, I can't think of anyplace where I need one.   Could just be my personal lack of experience with them.

While this is probably not applicable or desired by most of the folks on this board, you might find it interesting anyway. I make use of this VCA (DCA) technique for some bands along with the compression scheme and it's pretty cool. Groups are required too. Not for everyone but cool nonetheless.

Dave Rat's mixing technique (YouTube)

I don't see why it's not applicable even to smaller groups not really much more than some bar groups. It does however require a good ear and a sense of balance for your audience. A couple of drinks and hormones cranking at 110dB and anything will sound good.

[WK154]

Robbocurry:
My friend has been using one of these with a laptop for a few years now - very robust
http://www.allen-heath.com/UK/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?catId=iLiveSeries&ProductId=iDR32&SubCatId=MixRacks
 I get to play with one of these about twice a year at the Liberty Theater in the heart of the Forest Lawn Cemetery
 I say hi to Micheal as I go in. Of course they have a iT112 control surface so I never needed a laptop or iPad. But the $6999 for this will get you 3  X32's and I just mean the 32 channel stage box.

[Jkowtko]

Fyi some bathroom reading for those of you not familiar with DCA/VCA --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-gain_amplifier

VCA stands for Voltage Controlled Amplifier, basically the ability to remotely affect the gain of an amp by passing it a control signal of varying voltage.  This control signal is separate from the audio signal that the amp inputs and outputs.  In the case of sound consoles, this voltages affects the amp gain in an incremental manner, i.e. a delta from the gain already set locally on the amp.   Since the control voltage is just a wire carrying a voltage, you can attach it to many audio amps simultaneously. 

Therefore, a VCA provides a gain/volume delta override to the channels it is assigned to.  It does not touch the audio signals on those channels ... only the channel amplifier gain.

Groups can be used like VCAs if you planned to route all channels to the same busses.    But a group is a mix bus -- by definition it is a mixture of signals from the channels which are assigned to it.   The Group bus volume control adjusts the volume of the bus after the input channel signals are mixed together, and CANNOT affect the individual channel volume levels.

The term DCA was created to correspond to the term VCA for digital consoles -- Digitally Controlled Amplifier -- since functionally it provides the same behavior.

[WK154]

Jerry: Peace. I never understood Mackie's DL806 instead of a rack version 2U of the DL1608. The software still needs a lot but the capability is there. I've had my X32 for a month now and little time to explore it. I couldn't pass up the deal including cases for $3400 (X32+S16+cases and cable Tye). Just need the rack for roadie work. That gives me 32 channels on the road if need be. The full X32 is for my studio only (I like lights and faders what can I say). My XDM for 8 mics or less all wireless still gets plenty of road use. I'm also getting tired of learning new equipment and their idiosyncrasy's so the X32 family will fit the bill for the foreseeable future. It'll be awhile before I will clamor for more features (2 months). Just kidding. The new speakers that will run off Ultranet may be my next purchase if they can be wireless.

[WK154]

Fyi some bathroom reading for those of you not familiar with DCA/VCA --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-gain_amplifier

VCA stands for Voltage Controlled Amplifier, basically the ability to remotely affect the gain of an amp by passing it a control signal of varying voltage.  This control signal is separate from the audio signal that the amp inputs and outputs.  In the case of sound consoles, this voltages affects the amp gain in an incremental manner, i.e. a delta from the gain already set locally on the amp.   Since the control voltage is just a wire carrying a voltage, you can attach it to many audio amps simultaneously. 

Therefore, a VCA provides a gain/volume delta override to the channels it is assigned to.  It does not touch the audio signals on those channels ... only the channel amplifier gain.

Groups can be used like VCAs if you planned to route all channels to the same busses.    But a group is a mix bus -- by definition it is a mixture of signals from the channels which are assigned to it.   The Group bus volume control adjusts the volume of the bus after the input channel signals are mixed together, and CANNOT affect the individual channel volume levels.

The term DCA was created to correspond to the term VCA for digital consoles -- Digitally Controlled Amplifier -- since functionally it provides the same behavior.

Unfortunately in the DL with no amplifier control except manual (Pots) you will note that the only variation of level is after the A/D converters. So it's not the same as VCA's in the analog world or DCA in the digital world if there was control over the amplifier such as in the X32 and other digital consoles that have no external preamp adjustments. For one it cannot affect the S/N ratio it is what it is when you set the pots on the DL. A minor point I grant you but non the less a difference. Not all DCA's are created equal.

[robbocurry]

I know this isn't a very expensive mixer as mixers go, but you guys are treating it like a throw away.  Don't like it?  Don't keep it.  Don't try to get Mackie to configure it for the needs you want and then will toss away.  New versions of MF need to meet the needs of people who want to use the mixer.  It looks like DCA is only wanted by someone who doesn't plan to have this mixer next year.  Now sub groups?  I could go for those.  Got used to them on the CFX-12 mixer board.  (Where you can only send the signal onto the main outs by going through the subgroup.  Most mixers don't force you there.)  I also learned how to live without them on the MixWiz.  (Think they work best when used in like groups.  Horns, drums, vocals......)   And in my house, $1000 isn't money you just toss away on a toy.  I like the DL.  No mixer fills every need, but most do what you can live with.

Very nicely said

[robbocurry]

Robbocurry:
My friend has been using one of these with a laptop for a few years now - very robust
http://www.allen-heath.com/UK/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?catId=iLiveSeries&ProductId=iDR32&SubCatId=MixRacks
 I get to play with one of these about twice a year at the Liberty Theater in the heart of the Forest Lawn Cemetery
 I say hi to Micheal as I go in. Of course they have a iT112 control surface so I never needed a laptop or iPad. But the $6999 for this will get you 3  X32's and I just mean the 32 channel stage box.

It's a big lump of a thing too, they're a bit more affordable over this side of the pond £3500 ($5250) - the DL is still selling for £950 ($1500) over here. The x32 rack is in stock and available for £1300 ($1950)   
What price for quality, eh? Btw, it's a lot more than I would need or could justify at present. I'll have to make do with a QU-16 when it's my turn

[nottooloud]

It's a big lump of a thing too, they're a bit more affordable over this side of the pond £3500 ($5250) - the DL is still selling for £950 ($1500) over here. The x32 rack is in stock and available for £1300 ($1950)   
What price for quality, eh? Btw, it's a lot more than I would need or could justify at present. I'll have to make do with a QU-16 when it's my turn

Looks like they did a nice job on the QU-16. Most of my gigs I spec the gear and it just shows up. Under those my Yamaha LS9 has handled it all for a while. More and more, though, I'm bringing out this little tiny Mackie. I love the fact that when I fly, the Mackie can come along, not in baggage, not even in my carryon, but in a briefcase as the personal that you get in addition to the carryon. Ridiculous. It's a fun time to be in a tech field.

[WK154]

Shipping and tax is a real killer. The Rack is $1499 and the DL is $999 that about $500 difference yet the iT32 stage box is $1750 cheaper? Import/Export anyone? The lump is to keep the tail from wagging the dog.