Multitrack revisted

[Harpman]

So I already own a Focusrite 18i/20 and going to be purchasing a Focurite Octopre MK II.  All vocals and instrumentation will go to the Focusrite units and outputs will go to the input channels on the DL1608.  Prestaging all the gains on the Focusrite and zeroing out the DL1608.  Going to use Focusrite MixControl to send to my DAW and provide software control for recording.  The FOH and stage will still run off the Mackie.  Your thoughts?  I think this will work just fine.

[Jerrylee]

The problem that I see is with the outputs. They are dependent on the daw. There can be an extreme delay. They can also crash with the daw. May be ok with recording because you can stop and start. But there is no forgiveness with live sound when a system crashes. The daw would need to be running the whole time and most were not set up to run this way. I have learned this through experience.

[sam.spoons]

I'd split the mics off to the audio interfaces using Y cables so that if the DAW crashes the live audio is unaffected (I plan a similar setup next year with a Focusrite Pro 40 and a Behringer ADA8000).

[CyberHippy]

It looks like it has a low-latency pass-thru mixer, so as long as the Focusrite is set up correctly you shouldn't have any issue with latency.

http://us.focusrite.com/answerbase/scarlett-mixcontrol-tutorial-0

Now that I see it I realize this is the same routing mixer I used in the play I just finished, they had an earlier model Scarlett interface with an old G5 PowerMac for the sound FX (mostly gunshot sounds) - worked like a charm every night.

Play was Les Miserables at local Junior College- amazingly challenging play, very rewarding. Three week run (Thurs, Fri, two shows Sat, Sun Matinee) after two weeks of rehearsals. 16 piece orchestra, 32 wireless channels for 38 actors, all of whom had solos so yes we did pack-switching during the show. Mixed on Soundcraft Expression 3 - "cues" were my friend - over 100 of them. Orchestra was sub-mixed on A&H board the school owns, but could have been done on the DL1608.

[Harpman]

It looks like it has a low-latency pass-thru mixer, so as long as the Focusrite is set up correctly you shouldn't have any issue with latency.

http://us.focusrite.com/answerbase/scarlett-mixcontrol-tutorial-0

Now that I see it I realize this is the same routing mixer I used in the play I just finished, they had an earlier model Scarlett interface with an old G5 PowerMac for the sound FX (mostly gunshot sounds) - worked like a charm every night.

Play was Les Miserables at local Junior College- amazingly challenging play, very rewarding. Three week run (Thurs, Fri, two shows Sat, Sun Matinee) after two weeks of rehearsals. 16 piece orchestra, 32 wireless channels for 38 actors, all of whom had solos so yes we did pack-switching during the show. Mixed on Soundcraft Expression 3 - "cues" were my friend - over 100 of them. Orchestra was sub-mixed on A&H board the school owns, but could have been done on the DL1608.

The reason I bought the 18i/20 was due to the low latency.  It also not software dependent so in the event of a system crash, etc., it will still be up and running (much like the DL console when the iPad crashes).  Latency does always scare me, so that's why I did my homework prior to the Focusrite purchase.  Before the Mackie and Focusrite, I had a Tascam US1800 (still have it) and a Behringer XL3200 board and tried the same scenario. What a nightmare that was.  The Tascam is terrible when it comes to latency, so I can relate to the other posters in regards to latency.

BTW, on another note, WK154 (William) and his wife are coming down to Temecula next week to catch one of Kepi's show.  They are going to meet us for lunch.  Looking forward to it!  Heard William was up in your neck of the woods a few weeks ago.  I lived in Mill Valley with my older brother (still lives there) back in the early 80's.  Spoiled on the Napa and Sonoma wines.  Love the RR Pino's!  Hope to make it up there this spring/summer.  I will let you know.

[Jerrylee]

Gio just sell the dl and get the rack. All issues solved. Your going to spend over $400 for the focusrite. Just put that towards the rack.

[WK154]

Gio just sell the dl and get the rack. All issues solved. Your going to spend over $400 for the focusrite. Just put that towards the rack.

Good advise Jerry but a little too late since he already owns one. The Octopre MKII  certainly makes sense and Gio will have respectable DAW hardware without the DL. As far as reliability is concerned right now that would have to go to Focusrite, certainly not the DL which has problems on the wired interface. Definitely avoid Sam's Y cable solution it's too fraught with problems and you have it for free with the 18i20 set up correctly.
Gio looking forward to our get together and I'm glad Kepi can make it for lunch. Call you before the trip.

P.S. I see your joining audio hoarders anonymous. Me, RR, and now you.
As an aside I'm not dragging my once 45lb X32 on the road now that it rests in a Gator case at 145lbs total (soon to be removed for studio use only without Gator). Gator case to be used for moving day only!. So much for portability, plastic anyone? 20lbs. max with the doghouse.

[Jerrylee]

Used an x32 at an event a couple weeks ago. It had the gator case. I can't believe how damn heavy that thing is. Good thing about the rack is that is only 15 lbs. I'm going to have mine in the shallow rack case that weighs less than 5 lbs. that's less than 20 lbs. Yes it doesn't beat the under 10 lbs the dl comes in with the Mackie case but for 10 lbs more I'm ok with that. Especially with all the added benefits.

[Harpman]

Gio just sell the dl and get the rack. All issues solved. Your going to spend over $400 for the focusrite. Just put that towards the rack.

Good advise Jerry but a little too late since he already owns one. The Octopre MKII  certainly makes sense and Gio will have respectable DAW hardware without the DL. As far as reliability is concerned right now that would have to go to Focusrite, certainly not the DL which has problems on the wired interface. Definitely avoid Sam's Y cable solution it's too fraught with problems and you have it for free with the 18i20 set up correctly.
Gio looking forward to our get together and I'm glad Kepi can make it for lunch. Call you before the trip.

P.S. I see your joining audio hoarders anonymous. Me, RR, and now you.
As an aside I'm not dragging my once 45lb X32 on the road now that it rests in a Gator case at 145lbs total (soon to be removed for studio use only without Gator). Gator case to be used for moving day only!. So much for portability, plastic anyone? 20lbs. max with the doghouse.

Yeah William, already made the investment in the 18i/20.  For me I want the flexibility of recording a live show, whether I want to schlep the extra equipment (or weight) around. So I made a decision to use Octopre MK II with my 18i/20.  Will use the Octopre as the source unit (ADAT out) to my 18i/20 (ADAT in). Set the clocking via the ADAT (TOSLINK) in MixControl, use the outputs of the Focusrite units to the DL input channels, zero out the gains on the DL and set the pre's on the Focusrites accordingly.

BTW, check these guys out when your looking for your next case.  They are local in Temecula/Murrieta, but have a case for everyone: http://www.casesbymasco.com/.  Talk to Ron.  He'll set you up.  Great prices and a lot of variety.

[WK154]

Not sure if you invested in the Octopre yet. Can you hold off until next Thursday? Thanks for the case info. I got a bundled deal for the X32, S16, and two cases I couldn't resist so I bought. Not ideal but worth the buy.

[Jerrylee]

Wk that is one bad ass system. I absolutely love the x32. Just wish it was smaller and lighter and in a rack mount. Oh wait...

FYI my x32 rack will be picked up in February. I am all over North America and need to wait till I get back to Florida in February to get it. My dl will be on eBay and Craigslist then.

[WK154]

I'm waiting on the rack until NAMM and all it's surprises if nothing else just to see what Uli has up his sleeve. It's going to take a while to wade thru this one no stone unturned. I may just forget about gigs altogether and stay put then what I have will do fine until they put it on a watch. I hate watches.

[Harpman]

Not sure if you invested in the Octopre yet. Can you hold off until next Thursday? Thanks for the case info. I got a bundled deal for the X32, S16, and two cases I couldn't resist so I bought. Not ideal but worth the buy.

Actually, I did.  Ended up with another 18i20 since it was on sales at GC ($450).  A buddy of mine at GC has the same configuration as mine and loves it (Doesn't have the DL).  I'm still within 60 days to see if I like it or not. Have the ADAT (TOSLINK) cable connecting the 2. Plan on using that configuration on Thursday.  Planning out the two configurations: The Acoustic Groove trio with 6-channels (3 VOX, 2 Acoustic Guitars, 1 Harmonica) and the Kepi Payne Project with 12 Channels (3-4 VOX, 1 Guitar, 1 Bass, 2 Keyboards, 1 Kick, 1 Snare, 1 Overhead (Phantom), 1 Harmonica).  BTW, got rid of my humming issue by purchasing two things.  The Ebtech Hum X (http://www.ebtechaudio.com/humxdes.html) and a couple of passive DI's (per your recommendation) for the Keyboards (upper/lower) so I can run balanced into my DL.  Worked great on last night's gig. Lot's of positive comments on the sound mix.

[WK154]

Glad everything went fine. I'm not sure what other than a spare the 2nd 18i20 gets you except setup complications over the Octopre. You do have the World clock connected between the two units? One master one slave. BTW what speakers/amps are you going to use for Thursday?

[Harpman]

Glad everything went fine. I'm not sure what other than a spare the 2nd 18i20 gets you except setup complications over the Octopre. You do have the World clock connected between the two units? One master one slave. BTW what speakers/amps are you going to use for Thursday?

Actually works great with the wordclock.  Need to set one of the units for ADAT sync and the other as internal.  On both units, since they are referenced as Anlg Input 1 - 8, you need to route on the slave unit to send Anlg Input 1 to ADAT Output 1 so it's seen by the Primary in MixControl.  I'm going to use the QSC K12's without the K-SUB.  The K-SUB would be overkill considering the K12's put out decent low end, especially since there is no  base and 2 guitars.  I'm going to screen shot all the configuration and put it in a documented manual.  6 months from now, I may not remember