IOS 7.1

[Wynnd]

Downloading and updating my cell phone right now.  Don't have a gig until April so will run through testing it at rehearsal this week. 

[WK154]

Had to reboot for it to download, so it's a computer after all not a miracle fruit. Testing sync and white noise issues. Time will tell.

[Wynnd]

Everyone would love it if it fixes any DL issues.  I'm probably not a good one for testing on this because I haven't seen the issue.  At rehearsal, I was playing something in itunes and out through the internal connections.  I didn't quite double hit the home button returning to the single home hit when I was attempting to return to itunes from Master Fader.  So I hit the music button on the bottom of the screen and none of the itune controls would work.  Song was still playing and I was wanting to pause it.  I double hit the home button and flicked itunes off and the music stopped.  (Verifying that I wasn't crazy.)  So that has me wondering if returning to itunes from the double home button hit or returning to itunes without it are actually treated differently in the ipad.

[WK154]

Sync loss unfortunately is still there. This is a Mackie issue and off course needs to be fixed. My test suite is Master Fader for the serial communications (meters and commands), AudioTools FFT for streaming output (USB) from the DL and Music player for streaming input (USB) audio from iPad. No lockups on multitasking so far.

[Wynnd]

The sync loss is quite a surprise to me.  It always has to resync when changing to the Master Fader app from anything else and when undocking or docking.  (I always have to initialize the wifi link manually once.  I've been assuming everyone else is too.)  I'm a bit surprised that one can't choose to use the wifi even if docked.  (There is at least one person who is having no sync issues with Wifi but is experiencing them with the ipad docked.  That would be the work around for him.)

[WK154]

Why should the sync loss be a surprise? There are at least 4 threads on this forum alone describing it. A 1960's technology that Mackie has yet to come to grips with. Apple appears to have finally (maybe to early to declare) fixed. I have two background tasks running and one foreground task with no issues yet. The sync problem is a background to foreground transition issue. I can't give you a couple of grad course in 6 lines of text. Suffice it to say that the sync message and foreground transition should be transparent. Check other apps such as AudioTools or music player that do just that. We're not talking docking we're talking a much simpler process called task switching. The longer more random loss with the accompanying "White noise" issue is the real problem since it negates use of background music playing during break.

[Wynnd]

Task switching like Windows 3.1 and OS 9.x.    But the ipad has supported multi-tasking on some level since ios 4.x.  There are some limitations that show up on the multi-tasking IOS wiki page.  It does explain a bit of the ipad's behavior.  (Not enough, but it doesn't seem as strange anymore.) If I didn't need Apple's support on the ipad I would probably jailbreak it to see if that helps at all.  On the other hand, if anyone has a jailbreaked ipad, sure would be interesting to know if Master Fader works better or at all.  I really think that someone will eventually need to write a dedicated app to replace Master Fader and possibly IOS too.  Need to look at the EULAs for both and see what is legal.  On the other hand, I may not own the OS, but I'm betting that I own the hardware and should be able to do anything I want with it as long as I don't modify their software.  (That sounds like I can overwrite their software with whatever I write that's not a rip off of their software.)   I'm not sure I'm ready to take that project on.  Maybe some day.

[WK154]

Please understand that you are dealing with a single UI (foreground task) all other tasks are disconnected from the UI's I/O (screen) to the background, unlike Windows, X-Windows etc. (multiple windows) which simple redirect focus not reconstruct the UI to run. There is no need to stop communications with the DL in the background (loose sync), just simply do not display the results or act on commands from the wired connection.

[WK154]

Well it looks like Apple was busy with fixing the multitasking now it's Mackies turn. I had a different failure in MF no meters yet the connection status was "connected". I waited a while 2-3 minutes before trying to recover but no re-sync. Streaming sound was still going strong so I task switched to AudioTools to see if upstream audio was working (FFT) and it was. So I switched back to MF and it went through the sync cycle and all was well again. Battery at 83% by now would have given me the usual error messages and I'd be finished till a recharge to 100%. Apple must have fixed that. Overnight will bring more surprises.

[Wynnd]

Sounds like an improvement.  Also sounds like a second ios device is still a very good idea.  (I have an iphone for My Fader.  At least it's a backup for the faders themselves.)   I actually take reporting problems back to Apple on about the same approach.  If it's really important to fix something, itunes comes to my mind, I allow the computer to report back.  If it's an unimportant glitch, like my solitaire program, I don't. (Developer has run away from this program.  Eventually I'll need to replace it.)

[WK154]

Well my conclusion to the DL sync saga. It appears that power management on MF is heavily involved in the sync problem. Once the power drops in my case below 80% the MF logic decides that there is no device available and does shut down the audio stream (music player). With NO other change other than a charge to 90+ restores everything like magic. Other apps such as AudioTools continued to function after unplugging the DL by just switching to the internal mic. Music player which was stopped also continues to function and switches to internal speakers once started. Once the charge is sufficient reconnecting the iPad to the DL returns everything to the DL I/O. So the sync logic in MF appears to be the problem IMHO. There is no reason for disconnecting at 80% power that I'm aware off. I did notice a few loss of sync events even at 90+ power but all recovered. Running three apps slowly drains my iPad although it is charging. With a single app (MF) iPad holds it's own hence my previous lack of failures. Apples cleanup of multitasking cleared up some previous failure modes that required more drastic recovery procedures. Mackie's problem dates back to V1.0 which soon will be 2 yrs.. It showed up when we tried to extend the 30 pin connector with a cable and blamed it on the charging circuit switching from low to high charge. I no longer believe that was the problem since there is no indication that it does switch.

[Harpman]

Well my conclusion to the DL sync saga. It appears that power management on MF is heavily involved in the sync problem. Once the power drops in my case below 80% the MF logic decides that there is no device available and does shut down the audio stream (music player). With NO other change other than a charge to 90+ restores everything like magic. Other apps such as AudioTools continued to function after unplugging the DL by just switching to the internal mic. Music player which was stopped also continues to function and switches to internal speakers once started. Once the charge is sufficient reconnecting the iPad to the DL returns everything to the DL I/O. So the sync logic in MF appears to be the problem IMHO. There is no reason for disconnecting at 80% power that I'm aware off. I did notice a few loss of sync events even at 90+ power but all recovered. Running three apps slowly drains my iPad although it is charging. With a single app (MF) iPad holds it's own hence my previous lack of failures. Apples cleanup of multitasking cleared up some previous failure modes that required more drastic recovery procedures. Mackie's problem dates back to V1.0 which soon will be 2 yrs.. It showed up when we tried to extend the 30 pin connector with a cable and blamed it on the charging circuit switching from low to high charge. I no longer believe that was the problem since there is no indication that it does switch.

Bill, so why does the iPad ever get below 100% when docked?  I've had issues where it doesn't seem like its docked (no charge indicator and no record button), but when it's docked and recognized by MF, it always stays at 100%.  I know some of you are using other power bricks.  I know Apple went from a 10W to 12W power adapter when they introduced the "Retina" models (30 pin and lightening variations).  Have you obtained a reading off the DL either 30p or lightening and compared that to the Apple brick output?

[Wynnd]

I've used my connected and it will charge 60% in a 4 hour gig.  I've also used it undocked and when through about 60% of my charge without any problems.  Now, please note that my ipad is just as old as my DL1608.  (Last September.)  If charge is an issue, are these older ipads?  Maybe in need of a battery change out?  (Being that my iphone is still carrying a good charge and 2+ years old, doesn't seem likely.)

[Harpman]

I've used my connected and it will charge 60% in a 4 hour gig.  I've also used it undocked and when through about 60% of my charge without any problems.  Now, please note that my ipad is just as old as my DL1608.  (Last September.)  If charge is an issue, are these older ipads?  Maybe in need of a battery change out?  (Being that my iphone is still carrying a good charge and 2+ years old, doesn't seem likely.)

I use an iPad 3 (Retina) docked.  I always make sure that it is at 100% charge before a gig and once it's docked, will retain the 100% charge.  I use my iPad Air for remote which I also make sure it's at 100%.  The iPad air during a gig does get under 80%.  Usually 60-70% for a 3-4 hour gig, but I stream break music from my iPad Air using LouderLogic to my Airport Express and run a Y-cable from it to channels 15-16 (linked). 

[WK154]

Guys senility is my excuse so for at least the tenth time it's a iPad 3 Retina and we're talking only about the wired 30 pin connection. If you only run MF it will stay at 100% as noted above. I opted not to buy a $30 30pin paddle-board and do measurements. Not worth the time. And as I stated before it's the sync logic that makes the wrong determination. I don't see the DL charge voltage or current to the iPad changing over time, that leaves the Steve Jobs paranoid cable test giving incorrect status and should politely be ignored and Mackie should perform a foolproof way to determine sync status. Short of writing it for them I can't help them, maybe they can ask AudioTools how to do it . Multiple tasks running streaming audio puts sufficient load on power to make it loose charge. Mackie never specified charging current to the iPad and AFAIK does not change charging current. That requires a few extra chips Mackie wasn't willing to pay for. I also think the 5V supply is pushed to the limit.