The mackie dl1608 white noise saga! (A new member, who has been a lurker)

[Wynnd]

If that is the issue, the fix might be pretty simple.  Better cooling.  Someone should make an external fan to force air through the mixer.  Might not help with warm temp gigs, but probably with everything else.  I really think this could be an easy fix.  And an external fan shouldn't affect the warranty.  Could probably test this easily by using a hair dryer with a disabled heating element taped to one of the vents.  Or you could leave the heater element and find out quickly what happens when the inside is heated.  (I'd be a bit careful with that.)   Now if the overheating is occurring on the ipad itself, that would be a different animal  and would take a different approach to test.  Interesting discussion.

[WK154]

The idea came to me when one of the Canadian posters was concerned because he left it in the car overnight and it was cold. I'm thinking it was also cold during the day as well. He had no problems all day long. Yes it could be a temperature problem for borderline IC's but someone that has constant problems needs to test it, I can only stress it cable wise to get it to fail.  That may be a totally different problem.

[Jerrylee]

I highly doubt temp is the problem. It's a good theory though.

[iBloke]

Welcome to Club DL. I'll be going past your way next year in Sept. to the Great Barrier for a couple of weeks. I do have one question, how hot was it in your shed when the pink noise happened? I have a theory based on past experience with other Analog Devices (AD) DSP's and ARM's the processors in the DL. I have a Berry DEQ2496 which has 2 Sharc DSP's and an ARM cpu and the unit would crash at 90-95 F ambient. A screwdriver and 3 heat sinks later solved that problem although it still could use some air vents. Haven't gotten around to fitting a fan to the DL yet to see if it will solve the problem. CPU/DSP's are graded  for speed at the factory by the amount of heat generated (impedance actually) a normal process variation. I'm thinking that AD is too close to production limits and causing this random failure.

G'day, I live in Victoria and we are in our winter months now. The temp in the shed yesterday was a bit cooler because I didn't have my wood stove going.
I don't follow the ancient imperial measurement system so I haven't got a clue what the temp was in F but it was around 16 - 18 Celsius (21 C is considered a generally comfy room temp for humans)

And when it happened I was doing other things on the docked iPad. Reading emails etc.

[iBloke]

My 27 year, 1000+ gig reputation revolves around several things.

One of the most important things is I pride myself on constantly supplying my live sound abilities, which have been both reliable, and consistent.

I'm also respected for supplying 99% reliable production gear.

I've been the owner of my first digital mixer for about 30 hours and have become increasingly frustrated by ONE reoccurring problem.

The white/pink noise blast when trying to do the simple task of playing music from my permanently docked iPad.

FFS it's absolutely unacceptable for shite like that to happen!

It's happened so often that I've developed less than zero trust in this, my first and last, mackie product.

Yes I can plug an iPod directly into channels 15 & 16 and get 100% reliable set break music.
This effectively makes the DL a 14 channel mixer with an effing useless docked iPad channel.
Why is it there if it doesn't work reliably!?

I expected the pink noise blast problem due to learning about it during the extensive research I did prior to purchase.
But not so friggin' often!  I don't even need to be doing anything with the mixer and it happens.

Makes me wonder what other ridiculous reliability issues this thing has.

I'm absolutely dreading my first gig with it!

I'll be taking my analogue rack with me every gig.

The DL was supposed to help cut down on the gear I needed to carry to gigs to make my life a little easier.

But all it's done so far is instil in me is a lack of trust.

Fluddman, and any other fellow Aussie will understand me when I say, "NOT HAPPY JAN!"

[iBloke]

Oh and before anybody tells me to contact Mackie directly about this issue, I've already done that.

[Fluddman]

Bummer mate. Straight back to the shop with that one!

Its obviously faulty so it should be replaced without question.

Cheers

[iBloke]

Bummer mate. Straight back to the shop with that one!

Its obviously faulty so it should be replaced without question.

Cheers

My guess would be that it's not "faulty" simply because the pink/white noise issue is well documented, and as such I believe it's a software issue, and not a hardware issue.

Take this one back for a replacement, or keep it and use channels 15 & 16 for iPod playback. I still have zero faith it's reliability.

If I send it back I'll more than likely just take a full refund and continue on with my tried and trustworthy analogue gear.
I haven't used a multicore for a few years, and have had the Allen & Heath setup side stage. I simply walked out front, took notice of what was needed, back to the mixer side stage, made the necessary adjustments.
Repeat.

I had really hoped the that the mackie providing me with the ability to rove about and mix wirelessly (not to mention the tuning of monitors with the EQ in my hands at the microphone) would be a dream come true...

Hopes and dreams get dashed by bad experiences.

So without even one gig on using the mackie I can't recommend it to anybody who values reliability.

I'm glad you are happy with yours Fluddman.

But "initial impressions" are everything to me.
And my less than 2 days initial impression of this abomination suck.

...I shoulda listened to my inner voice... 

[iBloke]

And it just occurred to me that not only would I ever trust another mackie product, but I'd be reluctant to trust any other brands digital offering...

[Wynnd]

There are a lot of people who have never experienced the white noise problem.  I think it's more likely a hardware issue.  If it were software, everyone would probably experience it.  And the fact that you have a work around makes it a smaller issue.  (In my mind.)  I rarely provide recorded music anyway that doesn't include losing a couple of channels.  (Even on a StudioLive 24.4.2 mixer.)   I also rarely provide recorded music.  I have used airplay, but there are a few issues there too.  The 2 second delay at starting a song, Wifi interference.  (That happened on the 2.4 Ghz band from my iphone 4S last Friday.  Started having skips.  No problem on the 5 Ghz band.  Should probably take my laptop and look at where the problems are.) 

[iBloke]

There are a lot of people who have never experienced the white noise problem.  I think it's more likely a hardware issue.  If it were software, everyone would probably experience it.

A few years back I would have agreed with you.

I even said a similar thing on the whirlpool forums in regard to iPhone and iPad updates where there were a seemingly large crowd experiencing higher than normal battery drain issues, etc after they updated to the latest iOS software.
While the majority of others with the same hardware found either no issues or actually improvements.

Same hardware. Same software. Various results.

Still doesn't instill me with any future confidence in the DL.

I've been scratching my head for the past few hours trying to figure out a work around for my situation so that I don't have to carry ALL my old analogue gear as well as my new digital stuff.

Only way I've been able to come up with is to carry the DL in a brief case fitted out with foam n stuff, install my DBX DriveRack PX and one DBX 231 EQ in a 4RU sleeve, and put my tried and true A&H Zed16FX in its own small as possible brief case so it can be carried behind the seat in my truck just in case it's (more than likely) needed.
No need for the big heavy back breaking rack all that stuff currently resides in.

Whatever the outcome, I've been in contact with a handful of my fellow live sound friends and have informed them of this issue.
2 of them have since washed their hands of mackie and will either stick with what they have, or look at other digital options.
The others want me to keep them informed of future developments. (They are a few months off being financial enough to do anything)

This kinda thing really underlines the importance of "getting it right" for any buisiness that supplies gear to such a small cross section of the population.
Several of the above mentioned people are good friends of mine and as such I'll make it my business to steer them clear of potential issues like this glaring problem.

I call it how I see it.

I took a punt on mackie.

I lost on that punt

I'll help my friends avoid the same loss.

[iBloke]

I just remembered a post I read while researching this DL thing that made the statement the DL is "the etch A sketch" of the digital mixer world.

I agree with that now.

[sam.spoons]

I wonder if Mackie's Chinese manufacturer has started substituting cheaper components than those specced to save themselves some money? Older units seem to be ok, new ones not so much? Uli Behringer commented on this issue with Chinese factories, says it was why they built their own facility and send their own people to manage it.

[iBloke]

I wonder if Mackie's Chinese manufacturer has started substituting cheaper components than those specced to save themselves some money? Older units seem to be ok, new ones not so much? Uli Behringer commented on this issue with Chinese factories, says it was why they built their own facility and send their own people to manage it.

It wouldn't surprise me. But then I have less than zero understanding of how electronics work.
I know what resistors, capacitors, diodes, transistors, and IC's look like, but have zero knowledge of how they work in a circuit.

All I know is the end result "should" work.

Plug the iPad into the DL1604 dock.

The displayed channel list shows all 16 input channels, and they all work..albeit with slight variations on the input gain knobs using a standard SM58 to test all input levels.
ALL my other analogue mixers had nearly identical input gain knob settings.
The DL1608 has varying input gain knob settings. Same mic, and same lead. Inconsistency? YES!

Does that mean the input "op-amps" in the DL are inconsistent?

I would say emphatically YES!

So, what other glaring inconsitencies are present in this ... Abomination?

I've decided to contact the store I bought this POS from to see what my options are.

For our USA friends Australia doesn't have the same returns policies you blokes have access to.
We have a "too bad, you bought it, live with it, tough luck" policy which protects retail sellers but leaves the buyer high and dry.

[Jerrylee]

Here is some info for you guys about the white noise issue. I have Auria and used to have a presonus 1818. We would rehearse with it. But the white noise issue was there too. We would be in the middle of rehearsing and all the headphones quickly were ripped off. It got to the point where it was becoming automatic. The first several times it was awful. But we knew it would eventually happen. This is an for more than just Mackie.