The mackie DL1608 white noise saga continued..

[gerenm63]

Your logic has more holes than my pasta strainer and you clearly don't understand the problem. You might want to read the whole thread and nothing but the thread so help yourself. As far as you speaking for the "rest of us" that's pretty presumptuous.

I've read ALL of the related threads. I DO understand the problem. I also have DECADES of troubleshooting experience with both analog and digital audio as well as analog and digital video systems, and continue to work DAILY with such systems. You simply refuse to believe this could be anything but Mackie's problem. Guess what. It's possible that you are wrong.

It's also possible that I am wrong -- I'll freely admit that. But, we now have evidence of at least one iPad that had a consistent problem, and an update to its software has altered the results.

[Keyboard Magic]

the rest of us will do the right thing, and 1) see what iBloke's longer test results are, and (2) update some iPads that are, in concert with their mated DLs, exhibiting the problem and see if it clears it up.

Couldn't hurt to give it a go. Nothing to lose by trying.

[WK154]

Your logic has more holes than my pasta strainer and you clearly don't understand the problem. You might want to read the whole thread and nothing but the thread so help yourself. As far as you speaking for the "rest of us" that's pretty presumptuous.

I've read ALL of the related threads. I DO understand the problem. I also have DECADES of troubleshooting experience with both analog and digital audio as well as analog and digital video systems, and continue to work DAILY with such systems. You simply refuse to believe this could be anything but Mackie's problem. Guess what. It's possible that you are wrong.

I guess it's in the definition of what is a Mackie problem and that according to your logic would make it the D/A manufacturer problem if that's what caused it, not Mackie's. In that case I'm wrong.

[WK154]

the rest of us will do the right thing, and 1) see what iBloke's longer test results are, and (2) update some iPads that are, in concert with their mated DLs, exhibiting the problem and see if it clears it up.

Couldn't hurt to give it a go. Nothing to lose by trying.

Agreed or as Clint would say "make my day". Reminds me of a song by Garth "Blameless", was he singing about Mackie?

[robbocurry]

IIRC iBloke stated that in one of the tests during "white noise" he pulled the ipad from the dock and the noise continued. This would seem to eliminate the iPad altogether except for the possible initiator of it. Where does that leave the DL? No matter what the source it's a Mackie product ergo a Mackie problem. Apple is definitely not going to solve it.

I can see where the iPad, for some reason, would through garbage at the D/A converters that would leave them in an ambiguous state. If the iPad is pulled out before good data is received, they could become "stuck" there. Might there be a way to error check that? Maybe. It all depends on the D/A converter.

As far as it being Mackie's problem and no one else's, that a load of crap. If you float the ground on an XLR cable, and that causes hum on your SSL board, is that an SSL problem? No, it's not.

If the singer spits into your SM58 one time to many and it gums up the transducer and the mic starts to sound more like crap than an SM58 usually sounds through the PA, is that the fault of the PA? No, it's not.

So, if the Apple product throws crap into the Mackie product, and it causes the Mackie product to react badly, it's not a Mackie problem, it's an Apple problem.

+1 to that. This is a definite possibility IMHO.
Weren't there other manufacturers audio devices experiencing white noise problems too? I'm sure I read that in an earlier thread??

[Keyboard Magic]

Agreed or as Clint would say "make my day". Reminds me of a song by Garth "Blameless", was he singing about Mackie?

Yes it does. 

[James91104]

Hello, though I have no firsthand experience or knowledge of the topic of discussion from which to draw from and contribute to this thread, I would like to share a thought process of mine for consideration to the DL, iOs, iPad blame game.

The Roland M-200 mixer has iTunes music control facilities from within the M-200 Remote iPad app with audio data transferred via a Roland supplied 30-pin proprietary connection cable, with the ability for the iPad stereo audio to be patched and routed to any of the inputs and/or outputs on the M-200. Currently only a 30 pin cable is available for the M-200, but a Lightning cable is soon to be released.           
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/m-200i-remote/id588276040?mt=8 

Of note, the Roland app is currently version 1.05, and is compatible with ALL iPads and ALL iOS 5.1 or later including iOS8. The same compatibility applies to the Roland M-300 & M-480 Remote apps for their respective mixers.
Interestingly, to the best of my knowledge, The Roland apps appear to be the most fully and backwards compatible of any and all performance audio digital mixers corresponding iPad apps. In addition, where most manufacture`s apps have been updated to versions 2.XX and above, the M-200, M-300 and M-480 apps have remained at 1.XX with minimum updates.

Here again I have no firsthand experience with the Roland M-200, but more importantly and to a point, from the little I have found from internet searches and calls into Roland Systems Group there appears to be NO such end-user claims of white noise issues from that ipad/mixer app player.

Though I am certainly of no authority to point fingers much less issue an indictment of blame on the source of much discussion and debate, I am inclined to suspect the DL as the more likely culprit with what the Roland comparison can provide as any evidence, though admittedly proves nothing.

I fortunately have never had to experience the dreaded white noise blast, perhaps lucky or perhaps dependent on the very particulars of my past use of my DL. As it turns out that one is a dead parrot anyways, but that is another story.

[robbocurry]

The saga may now be at an end with iOS8.1.
To blame Mackie for something which, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't occur until iOS6 seems unfair.
That's to say, the DL worked as expected at launch with the iOS available at the time.
Just my two pence worth

[iBloke]

It's also possible that I am wrong -- I'll freely admit that. But, we now have evidence of at least one iPad that had a consistent problem, and an update to its software has altered the results.

I have zero knowledge of the technical details behind this problem.
And I've said that I don't care who's fault it is. Apple or mackie, or a combination of both.
I just wanted it to go away.

Since updating IP 3 to iOS 8.1 yesterday I've tried everything to coax the noise and so far it's remained 100% stable.
I have another gig tomorrow night and will use the docked IP3 to play set break music for the first time.
I'm feeling pretty confident 

[Wynnd]

I'm hoping that everyone's experience duplicates yours.  It would be nice for a cure.  If the white noise was caused by some sort of loop, maybe Apple made some error handling changes that look for it and stop it before anyone notices.  Whatever caused it.  I'm waiting for someone else to do the update and still have the problem.  (And I'm praying that no one continues to have the problem.)

[WK154]

Here's a possibility and we know this hasn't been fixed in MF since no update exists for iOS8.x. From Studio 6 Digital:

Here’s why some iOS 8 updates break our apps

Just figured this out this morning. Apple provides the ability to change the mic gain on many devices, including all iPhones. Prior to iOS 8, iPad 2, iPad 3, and iPad mini did not support this feature. The good news is that now those devices do have adjustable gain, but the bad news is that the gain factors are completely different than they were in all of the previous devices. So, when AudioTools starts up, it detects the adjustable gain and sets the mic to the values that worked before. Only now, those values result in the gain being set so low that the input basically shuts off.

We have a fix working here, but unfortunately we also need to update all of the modules for compatibility with iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus. We have both devices here, and we are making good progress. We hope to get an update to Apple this week, which likely would be approved by next week.

In the meantime, you can set the gain values for the internal mic to about 30, and you will get some results, but only for louder sounds.
If you quiet the noise will it bother you? They've since fixed that problem but there are more.

[robbocurry]

Here's a possibility and we know this hasn't been fixed in MF since no update exists for iOS8.x. From Studio 6 Digital:

Here’s why some iOS 8 updates break our apps

Just figured this out this morning. Apple provides the ability to change the mic gain on many devices, including all iPhones. Prior to iOS 8, iPad 2, iPad 3, and iPad mini did not support this feature. The good news is that now those devices do have adjustable gain, but the bad news is that the gain factors are completely different than they were in all of the previous devices. So, when AudioTools starts up, it detects the adjustable gain and sets the mic to the values that worked before. Only now, those values result in the gain being set so low that the input basically shuts off.

We have a fix working here, but unfortunately we also need to update all of the modules for compatibility with iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus. We have both devices here, and we are making good progress. We hope to get an update to Apple this week, which likely would be approved by next week.

In the meantime, you can set the gain values for the internal mic to about 30, and you will get some results, but only for louder sounds.
If you quiet the noise will it bother you? They've since fixed that problem but there are more.

?
Sorry WK, not following you!

[WK154]

Robbo before I answer that I need to know from iBloke if he changed the music playback program since his other tests and what is it? Remember that MF may or may not process that data or whether it just commands the DL of what it's about to receive. Sorry I'm not privy to the code. Ah but I do know that the app like music which I believe was being used for the tests has been modified by Apple for iOS 8.x and it does control the volume before it's passed on to the DL (change number one). The DL then can further control the volume (iPad faders) before sending it on it's way to the PA. It actually get worst than that because Apple likes to control the World and may also pass the audio stream thru it's audio-limiter (Katz's answer to the loudness wars) if you haven't turned it off. Remember this is all digital audio till it hits the DL D/A's.

[iBloke]

Robbo before I answer that I need to know from iBloke if he changed the music playback program since his other tests and what is it? Remember that MF may or may not process that data or whether it just commands the DL about what it's about to receive. Sorry I'm not privy to the code.

I use both apple music app, and Tango music app. Tango give me the ability to set up play lists wirelessly.

These are the only 2 music apps I've ever used and the White noise was equally common in both.

[WK154]

I know that Music app has been modified for iOS8 has Tango and have you used it recently wired the October 7th version which includes iOS 8 fixes.?