DL32R vs X32Rack

[iBloke]

so now a full-featured 32ch live sound mixer in 3 rack spaces is too big?

Those were my exact same thoughts. 

A very wise person once told me that, "you can please some people some of the time. And then there are some people who can be pleased all of the time.
But ya can't please All the people All the time.
And lastly there are some people who quite simply Can't be pleased Any of the time" 

[robbocurry]

Those  are deep.   I was kind of thinking that the digital age allowed these devices to be much more compact.  The DL1608 is tiny and light.   I use shallow XRacks now and am not thrilled with the idea of moving up  to a full-depth rack case to carry the X32Rack ... which the DL wouldn't even fit in.  Maybe I should be waiting for the next generation rack units ...

so now a full-featured 32ch live sound mixer in 3 rack spaces is too big?

Well said Walter!
People need to put things into perspective.
Next "32 mic stands, leads and mics won't fit into my Mini because the 3u rack is too big!"
A bit of depth and weight would be helpful to stop it from tipping or shifting with a load of connections in it.
IMHO I'd rather have cooling fans and not need them, than need them and not have them. 

[Cornelius]

Hello, i'am Cornelius and new to this forum...

Are there and thoughts about combining 2 Behringer S16 stageboxes with a X32 CORE,
instead of the RACK version?
To me it seems a small set-up with a total of 32/16 inputs/outputs on the front in only 5 rackspace.

Regards from The Netherlands,

Cornelius

(Yamaha LS9 and DL1608 user...)

[Jkowtko]

Those  are deep.   I was kind of thinking that the digital age allowed these devices to be much more compact.  The DL1608 is tiny and light.   I use shallow XRacks now and am not thrilled with the idea of moving up  to a full-depth rack case to carry the X32Rack ... which the DL wouldn't even fit in.  Maybe I should be waiting for the next generation rack units ...

so now a full-featured 32ch live sound mixer in 3 rack spaces is too big?

3U was not my issue ... just the depth.  Currently the deepest piece of rack equipement I own is 7-8", (I have all self-powered speakers so no outboard amps) and I have a set of shallow XRack cases that I set on the sound table.  The X32 would require a standard depth rack case, and the DL32 one of the larger ones.  It stops being a tabletop setup.

I would rather have a shallower 4U unit than a deeper 3U.

[ijpengelly]

And to think they made it especially deep so you had somewhere to mount your wifi access point and direct to disk hard drive.... 

[RoadRanger]

I too have switched to only shallow racks and needing a deep one is problematic - especially as I'd hope to have a couple amps (I have passive subs and monitors), a wireless mic receiver, and an IEM transmitter in there too. There'd be a HUGE amount of wasted space in there and compact is important to me.

[Kev tyler]

Whereas control of other digital mixer platforms may offer a number of hardware/software choices for control, the DL series apparently is rigidly tied to the Apple iOS.

And that's why I could not purchase such a limited product, considering the irregular erroneous problems caused by apples  update policy,  crazy,

Kev

Sorry Kev, what problems are you talking about?
Nothing major springs to mind in my dealings with MF and the DL1608.
I don't find the product "limited" at all and it would seem other digi mixer manufacturers are of the same opinion, with just a few beginning to offer Android control.

Hi Robbo,

I have 2 or 3 apps I am going to use for live playback of tracks and interval music, mistakingly I left auto update on on my pad, and IOS updated overnight and I experienced a few problems with the apps, the developers release an update and fix a few problems and stability is restored within a few days, backing tracks smacking trax I have 3 spare laptops in reserve and an iPhone, what I am saying is this, if I was mixing 32 mics in important shows, I would be worried about making any changes to my pad, I would need a spare pad, I would be worried about making changes to the spare, I would probably have a hard disk which boots my pc with a restore option of the previous iOS versions, you can see where this is going can't you, it's like you have to add 1000 pounds to the cost of every  digital mixer that is ipad only, or  have a very organized  back up and restore regime in place.

Cheers

Kev

[James91104]

Are there and thoughts about combining 2 Behringer S16 stageboxes with a X32 CORE,
instead of the RACK version?
To me it seems a small set-up with a total of 32/16 inputs/outputs on the front in only 5 rackspaces

Hello, thoughts are as pointed out, yes, 5 rack spaces combined. With that combination however one now has the option of full 32/16 I/O remote stage location of the S16`s. However, there is the lack of Aux I/O`s that is provided on the X32Rack.
The Core does provide an input selection knob & scribble strip display, a dedicated Talkback input, and 2 assignable encoders & 4 assignable switches when compared to the DL32R.
Core is 12" depth, xRack and S16 are both about 11" depth.
DL32R is 17.5" depth.
Again using Sweetw.... for pricing reference, X32 Core @ $800 US, plus 2 times X32 S16 @ $900 US for a total of $2,600 US, tops the previous
comparison examples in the $2K range.
Specific to the X Series range of products, the Core does not provide the full degree of front panel mix capability access such as the X32 Rack possesses due to the obvious omission of a TFT screen and accompanying encoders and function buttons.
Though one could extreme emergency mix from the Core front panel, the X32Rack would provide for a less sweat generating scenario I would think.
So really I propose the X Core/ dual S16 combo is more of an equal, head to head comparison to the DL32R AND the Pres.... RM32AI as this most closely mimics I/O facilities and more importantly no or least amount of front panel mix control.
Of course this thread is in response to the original  topic comparison between the DL32R and the X32Rack.

[Jkowtko]

Hello, i'am Cornelius and new to this forum...

Are there and thoughts about combining 2 Behringer S16 stageboxes with a X32 CORE,
instead of the RACK version?
To me it seems a small set-up with a total of 32/16 inputs/outputs on the front in only 5 rackspace.

... plus the added flexibility of having your input racks in two different locations to optimize cable lengths.

Unfortunately those S16s are a bit pricey relative to the head units.

[ArikS]

I don't think the discussion is pointless, we know Beno is watching the threads so this is a good way to get some feedback regarding what other people desire and why they look at other products.

I'm not slamming Mackie, I really like my 1608 but it's not a one size fits all product.

I think it's a little productive to point out some of the reasons the DL32R doesn't appeal to me over some of the X models.

Now here is a really good suggestion for Mackie that even people on the Behringer forums have suggested:

Build a control surface for the DL32R and I'll buy it!   The reason I'm not interested in the DL32R currently is because I'm stuck using my iPad.  If you had a remotable control surface, via WiFi or Ethernet that gives you all of the control with dedicate buttons, faders, switches, etc but it's just controlling the mixing engine via Ethernet I would be highly interested. 

If and when I ever buy an X32 product it would be with an S16 because I don't want to lug a heavy snake around, I just want a single Ethernet cable (S16 to X32 or WiFi access to a control surface from the mixing engine)

Agree 100%. A nice control surface with REAL faders and knobs would be missing piece of the puzzle for all of them: X32 rack, Presonus RM and Mackie DL32R: light, battery-powered and with built-in Wi-Fi. Kind of wireless version of A&H iLive series (where iDr stage rack is essentially the same as all those rack mixers).

I don't really see the point of positioning them against each other: iPads/tablets via Wi-Fi and wired control surfaces. Why we can't have both in one device: Wi-Fi remote control surface with motorized faders, scribble strips, meters, etc. Battery life isn't really that important (like with laptops, as long as you have a few minutes to move from one position to another and plug it into nearest AC outlet, that's all I need!)

I like X32, but it doesn't make sense to haul it around if all you need can be located in the rack on stage: nice lightweight 25-fader Wi-Fi control surface will do the job just fine. (hopefully they will make a long-awaited step up to 48 inputs this way (X32R plus 2xS16). Mackie had a nice MCU series controllers with all this functionality.

Seems like AVID may catch on this faster: their S3 surface (part of S3L system) is a prime candidate. All it needs is some additional "docking station" containing battery, charger and Wi-Fi module, that's all! It's compact and lightweight enough to fit the purpose.

[robbocurry]

A linkable hard surface with proper faders would be great for the DL1608 never mind the DL32R.

[Kev tyler]

It's a dead cert that any future tactile remotes for these wireless gizmos will be attached to an iPad,

I did mention my own concept a few weeks ago, IMHO  there will be no need for motorized faders,as you will have a visual representation of level etc, on the pad, a row of spring loaded increment decrement paddles will suffice I think.

Kev

[ArikS]

It's a dead cert that any future tactile remotes for these wireless gizmos will be attached to an iPad,

I did mention my own concept a few weeks ago, IMHO  there will be no need for motorized faders,as you will have a visual representation of level etc, on the pad, a row of spring loaded increment decrement paddles will suffice I think.

Kev

I doubt any touch-screen or rubber pads will replace real faders: try to ride them smoothly or ride a few at once -- never! Energy consumption by motorized faders is hardly a problem, just a matter of selecting proper battery solution (there are zillions of battery-powered devices that contain electric motors, from power tools to electric cars, all work fine on batteries).

If size/weight become an issue (shouldn't, it's not one-size-fits-all situation), then just make a live/remote Wi-Fi version or Mackie MCU or Digi 003: 8-9 motorized faders and switchable banks/layers

iPad may work as a display unit (levels, names, etc.) or for some functions that don't require a tactile control (i.e. left-right swipe across channels like on DL1608 or "drawing" of graphic EQ curve)

[Wynnd]

We have bluetooth keyboards for our ipads.  Why not a bluetooth fader rack?  Sell them in 16 channel sets and be assignable.  I can see this working.  The market would be as big as the number of ipad dependent digital mixers and that number will only be going up.  (Quickly at this point.)  I would want sliders with physical tracks, but they wouldn't have to be actual potentiometers.  (That could get dirty and fail.) Wouldn't have to be 100mm long either.

[ArikS]

We have bluetooth keyboards for our ipads.  Why not a bluetooth fader rack?  Sell them in 16 channel sets and be assignable.  I can see this working.  The market would be as big as the number of ipad dependent digital mixers and that number will only be going up.  (Quickly at this point.)  I would want sliders with physical tracks, but they wouldn't have to be actual potentiometers.  (That could get dirty and fail.) Wouldn't have to be 100mm long either.

It all goes down to castrated claustrophobic solution, kind of mini USB piano keyboards with micro-sized keys that even kid can't play. Yes, it's the same black and white keys as in real piano but absolutely unusable for serious playing. No different than using laptop keyboard for playing notes with one finger, one at the time.

I see the ideal remote control surface as full-sized 100-mm faders, with normal spacing between them, 25 faders at least (16 for channels, 8 for subgroups, VCAs, etc. and one master fader). Scribble strips (channel names) and signal level meters are a must too. I don't mind to see it as a sliced top of Behr X32, same size.