Wireless microphone drama

[Fluddman]

Had an interesting gig on Saturday using a Shure SLX24 UHF wireless microphone.

While holding a wireless-connected iPad, I couldn't get anywhere near the wireless microphone without master fader chucking a wobbly. At around six feet MF becomes very erratic and slow to respond. Inside six feet the sync with the DL starts dropping out and eventually it won't reconnect.

I move well away from the microphone and try to reconnect MF. No luck. I try quitting MF, deleting it from the iPads memory and relaunching it. It reconnects but is a little erratic but working. Over the next ten minutes it gets worse and becomes un-usable about 10 seconds into the opening song. Lucky for me I had a rough mix dialled in - it would have been exciting if there was a massive burst of feedback.

Out of desperation I shutdown the ipad and reboot it. Not sure how long this took, enough time to think that the next step would be to try rebooting the mixer and router. After seemingly an eternity it reboots before the first song finishes. Fortunately this did the trick and it was back to normal - phew!

My airport express is mounted in the same rack as the DL and the wireless receiver for the microphone. So I guess I'll try separating them and see how it goes but I doubt this is the problem as it works fine as long as I stay away from the wireless microphone itself. I can't sound check that microphone while holding the iPad.

What I don't really understand is why it continued to effect the iPad/MasterFader after I'd moved well away from the microphone. It's like it somehow corrupted the app or wifi connection and only a complete shutdown and reboot gets it to work. After this experience I am really nervous about using this particular wireless microphone.

Any ideas?

[WK154]

Used a SLX H5 band for over a year with the DL not a single problem as described. What band are you using in Sydney? Possible defective Shure transmitter putting out additional frequency. Moving away would mean about 100ft (30meters) at 30mW of power. Can you try replacing either iPad or Shure mic to narrow down problem? I also used a bunch of EW100 Sennheisers along with the Shure at all shows without problems. One other question is the iPad a WiFi only?

[Fluddman]

Thanks WK.

Its operating in the L4 band.

I can't try a different mic (i bought one to try and am planning on getting another three) but I can try a different iPad.

The iPad is both wifi and cellular.

I am just setting it up now at home to see if I can replicate the problem.

Cheers

[Fluddman]

Ok - this is really weird.

Just set up at home and its working perfectly. Could it somehow be venue specific??

I hate inconsistent problems 

[Wynnd]

I ran into a venue where my AirPlay didn't work consistently.  And if it were a busier place, I would have attributed it to the audience, but there weren't very many people there.  Old building, maybe bad wiring?  Don't expect to be there again, so I won't worry about it.  I also normally have a docked ipad on the mixer and one for remote.  Those both worked perfectly the entire gig.

[WK154]

Ok - this is really weird.

Just set up at home and its working perfectly. Could it somehow be venue specific??

I hate inconsistent problems 

This is where a frequency analyzer comes in handy. My recommendation for anyone using wireless mics is to get one unless they're already part of the wireless setup (high end products). I suspect that since your iPad is cellular that you had it on (easy to test for) and with a bunch of other phones at the venue plus possible TV and other transmitters in the area you didn't stand a chance. Cell receiver overload can have interesting effects on them say nothing of the iPad software trying to service it, yes they have some protection but it's not unlimited. The frequencies involved may be IMD products which requires software to help you stay clear of problems.

[Scott Waldy]

Is moving up to the 5Mhz band an option? Just a thought.

[Fluddman]

Is moving up to the 5Mhz band an option? Just a thought.

Thanks but already using 5Mhz to avoid problems with the digital wireless microphones such as the Line 6 gear.

[Fluddman]

Ok - this is really weird.

Just set up at home and its working perfectly. Could it somehow be venue specific??

I hate inconsistent problems 

This is where a frequency analyzer comes in handy. My recommendation for anyone using wireless mics is to get one unless they're already part of the wireless setup (high end products). I suspect that since your iPad is cellular that you had it on (easy to test for) and with a bunch of other phones at the venue plus possible TV and other transmitters in the area you didn't stand a chance. Cell receiver overload can have interesting effects on them say nothing of the iPad software trying to service it, yes they have some protection but it's not unlimited. The frequencies involved may be IMD products which requires software to help you stay clear of problems.

Thanks WK. So I'll turn the cellular off next time.

[Fluddman]

My real concern is for the future as I am considering a DL32R.

As with Wynn I also keep a docked iPad in the DL1608 but that's not possible with the DL32R and either is going for the trim pots. So if it were to happen with the DL32R it would be a a real show stopper!

If its a cell problem I don't understand why the UHF microphone set it off.

Cheers to all

[Scott Waldy]

What frequency is the SLX running on? I realize it's in the UHF band. I'm curious as to it's transmitting freq, being close to the Ipad's recieving and it overloading it?


Edit:
OOPS... Missed the part of your getting it set up at home and it working. Sorry

[WK154]

My real concern is for the future as I am considering a DL32R.

As with Wynn I also keep a docked iPad in the DL1608 but that's not possible with the DL32R and either is going for the trim pots. So if it were to happen with the DL32R it would be a a real show stopper!

If its a cell problem I don't understand why the UHF microphone set it off.

Cheers to all

In the US what used to be TV and Mic frequencies are now cell phone territory.  Soon 500mHz to 600Mhz will be the only remaining frequency  band. I don't know the situation in Aussie land, probably similar. Smog and cloud layers can also ruin your day. I did some work with Shure on their Wireless Workbench V5.0 and an outfit in Melbourne a while back on an analyzer. Don't recommend them. Signal Hound is my current unit. The FCC may have to wake up and set aside a band just for Wireless Audio like EU.

[Fluddman]

I tried again today and couldn't get it to play up - bugger!

I guess when (if) it happens again I'll just switch to another iPad straight away.

If its somehow related to the cellular network I guess rebooting the iPad somehow fixes the problem. I know every now again I need to reboot my iPhone because its loses its cell connection.

I'll keep cellular turned off at gigs.

Cheers

[Fluddman]

More problems at a gig yesterday, though not as severe as the previous week.

Everything is working ok until I start to sound check the wireless mic. Talking in to the mic while holding the iPad causes MF to freeze, moving away from the microphone makes it returns to normal.

I had cellular turned off on the iPad and (by accident) I had the wireless receiver for the microphone also turned off.

So it does appear that the wireless microphone's transmitter is interfering with my wifi connection when I get within arms reach of it. I didn't have time for problem solving but had zero issues for the rest of the day (as I avoided going near the wireless microphone).

Odd, that I had no problem when I tested at home - the only significant difference I can think of is that at the gig I would have been a little further away from the airpot express.

I guess of some note, this gig was a private function in the backyard of a fairly well to-do leafy residential area. So probably nothing much else to cause a problem other than my own equipment.

Cheers



 

[robbocurry]

Your mic seems to be the source of your problems, as suggested you should get it's rf output analysed.
Over the summer I ran seven radio mics and wireless iems on two different bands and never had a glitch with the iPad. I was using frequencies in the 606mhz and 860mhz bands. I wouldn't have thought anything other than digital mics on 2.4ghz would have messed with an iPad. Is this problem just a recent development or has it always been like this?