Suggestions for a Small rack mixer as a backup

[troy mcclure]

Roadranger, the issue with the berhinger x12 is if the Ipad controlling the 1608 is the reason I need a back up I am SOOL.   I would have to carry a back-up tablet  or laptop..  I currently bring a Yamaha mx series alog, but it does take up space and i do have to remember to put it in each gig and it could stay in my practice space as my vocal mixer where it belongs...

I might try a behringer mix ultra- link splitter... not fancy volume and channel blend only but it does meet my requirements and I can always use my powered speakers for master volume adjustment....  again this is only an emergency rig. 

[troy mcclure]

I have an A&H ZED10 that lives in a small case in the van. I've never needed to use it as a backup (my DL never let me down) but it's done a few gigs just for the heck of it
The price of a DL806 makes them damn hard to ignore at the moment.
Proven and familiar for you?
[/quote

I thought of that but if the ipad goes down....
]

[Rdmitch]

Totally understand the need for a backup, I go the opposite way and carry a 16 channel powered Yamaha board.
This is for the following reasons:

need at least 12 channels to squeak by with.
If my power amp craps out I can always use the Yamahas 2-500watt amps to power the mains or monitors
It has 8 channels with compressors and a decent FX section and EQ section.

It is not crazy big or heavy. I simply leave it in the van and don't have to load or unload it each time.
It's just there,along  with spare wires and tools.

[WK154]

No-one can beat this for a backup.  http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=355.0
Last time I bagged 6 for $49.99 and $29.99 of that was shipping. Add a fan for $8 and you need to be handy making cables. Mount a 32 connector panel in the back and you can switch in less than 2 minutes from your DL1608 to 8 mic/line and 4 line inputs (loose the drums). Far less adjustments especially if you're a performer/FOH type. Yes you need a PC of sorts for setup but that can be done beforehand. I also bring out three switches for emergencies Mute and volume up and down on output 1 (L&R). It also has a lot of filters, compressor, delays and crossover functions along with lots of setup tools (White,Pink,single and scanning freq.). It understands NOM. You can go all out with macros and lots of setup storage. The pre's are  better than Mackie's or Behringer's. It did after all have a MSRP $5200 price tag in 2002. Just don't buy one with a dead fan like Sam or Robbo ( sorry forgot who) and expect it to last.

[Kev tyler]

I purchased a zed 10fx recently whilst I contemplated jumping in to the digital pond, it's a solid little desk, but I hate the fx, has anyone else found them a bit weird?

Kev

[robbocurry]

I purchased a zed 10fx recently whilst I contemplated jumping in to the digital pond, it's a solid little desk, but I hate the fx, has anyone else found them a bit weird?

Kev

They need a little work IME 

[robbocurry]

No-one can beat this for a backup.  http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=355.0
Last time I bagged 6 for $49.99 and $29.99 of that was shipping. Add a fan for $8 and you need to be handy making cables. Mount a 32 connector panel in the back and you can switch in less than 2 minutes from your DL1608 to 8 mic/line and 4 line inputs (loose the drums). Far less adjustments especially if you're a performer/FOH type. Yes you need a PC of sorts for setup but that can be done beforehand. I also bring out three switches for emergencies Mute and volume up and down on output 1 (L&R). It also has a lot of filters, compressor, delays and crossover functions along with lots of setup tools (White,Pink,single and scanning freq.). It understands NOM. You can go all out with macros and lots of setup storage. The pre's are  better than Mackie's or Behringer's. It did after all have a MSRP $5200 price tag in 2002. Just don't buy one with a dead fan like Sam or Robbo ( sorry forgot who) and expect it to last.

Not me Bill, hard to get that cheap this side of the pond 

EDIT: I stand corrected, just saw two on eBay for £30 plus P&P. Might dip my toe just to see what they're about....

EDIT TWO: Oops! Just bought one for £25. Will check the fan 1st thing!

[WK154]

No-one can beat this for a backup.  http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=355.0
Last time I bagged 6 for $49.99 and $29.99 of that was shipping. Add a fan for $8 and you need to be handy making cables. Mount a 32 connector panel in the back and you can switch in less than 2 minutes from your DL1608 to 8 mic/line and 4 line inputs (loose the drums). Far less adjustments especially if you're a performer/FOH type. Yes you need a PC of sorts for setup but that can be done beforehand. I also bring out three switches for emergencies Mute and volume up and down on output 1 (L&R). It also has a lot of filters, compressor, delays and crossover functions along with lots of setup tools (White,Pink,single and scanning freq.). It understands NOM. You can go all out with macros and lots of setup storage. The pre's are  better than Mackie's or Behringer's. It did after all have a MSRP $5200 price tag in 2002. Just don't buy one with a dead fan like Sam or Robbo ( sorry forgot who) and expect it to last.

Not me Bill, hard to get that cheap this side of the pond 

EDIT: I stand corrected, just saw two on eBay for £30 plus P&P. Might dip my toe just to see what they're about....

EDIT TWO: Oops! Just bought one for £25. Will check the fan 1st thing!

Probably right £ for one unit. Word of caution shut off AEC and NP or you can get some interesting side effects. The unit's main goal was vocal clarity and remote voice  communication. So unless delay's are adequate for FX you need external FX if you're into that. Just as a feedback control (up to 15 notch filters) and setup aid it's paid for itself. I've used them for going on 9 years even cascading units, delay is 150 microseconds input to output unless you send it thru the secondary filters which adds another 150 microseconds. Compared to 1500 microseconds for the DL. I've used them remote (USB Bluetooth to RS232) with a tablet (Toshiba R15, meters are slow but then you can get used to them like the MF3). Lots of additional features and it can be used for many functions limited only by your imagination. Solid design intended for 24/7/365 unattended operation.

[robbocurry]

No-one can beat this for a backup.  http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=355.0
Last time I bagged 6 for $49.99 and $29.99 of that was shipping. Add a fan for $8 and you need to be handy making cables. Mount a 32 connector panel in the back and you can switch in less than 2 minutes from your DL1608 to 8 mic/line and 4 line inputs (loose the drums). Far less adjustments especially if you're a performer/FOH type. Yes you need a PC of sorts for setup but that can be done beforehand. I also bring out three switches for emergencies Mute and volume up and down on output 1 (L&R). It also has a lot of filters, compressor, delays and crossover functions along with lots of setup tools (White,Pink,single and scanning freq.). It understands NOM. You can go all out with macros and lots of setup storage. The pre's are  better than Mackie's or Behringer's. It did after all have a MSRP $5200 price tag in 2002. Just don't buy one with a dead fan like Sam or Robbo ( sorry forgot who) and expect it to last.

Not me Bill, hard to get that cheap this side of the pond 

EDIT: I stand corrected, just saw two on eBay for £30 plus P&P. Might dip my toe just to see what they're about....

EDIT TWO: Oops! Just bought one for £25. Will check the fan 1st thing!

Probably right £ for one unit. Word of caution shut off AEC and NP or you can get some interesting side effects. The unit's main goal was vocal clarity and remote voice  communication. So unless delay's are adequate for FX you need external FX if you're into that. Just as a feedback control (up to 15 notch filters) and setup aid it's paid for itself. I've used them for going on 9 years even cascading units, delay is 150 milliseconds input to output unless you send it thru the secondary filters which adds another 150 milliseconds. Compared to 1500 milliseconds for the DL. I've used them remote (USB Bluetooth to RS232) with a tablet (Toshiba R15, meters are slow but then you can get used to them like the MF3). Lots of additional features and it can be used for many functions limited only by your imagination. Solid design intended for 24/7/365 unattended operation.

Yeah, will be interesting to see what it does, bit of a bargain for sure!
I'd like to run it wirelessly so probably go RS232/Bluetooth as you said.
I take it I'll need a Windows tablet of some variety or some kind of "screen sharing app"?
Using a laptop wouldn't be a hardship either
Will need to order some Phoenix connectors too....

[WK154]

I've run it under XP and W7 (one error message to politely ignore). Usually the connectors are still attached to the unit otherwise they're about $0.90 in US ... UK?
It is a Windows app don't know if it runs on Mac in Windows emulation.

[WK154]

[...] delay is 150 milliseconds input to output unless you send it thru the secondary filters which adds another 150 milliseconds. Compared to 1500 milliseconds for the DL. [...]

Eek! But I suspect you meant "microseconds" not "milliseconds" .

What would I do without you! Yes microseconds! Fixed in post.

[Sir Krang]

I purchased a zed 10fx recently whilst I contemplated jumping in to the digital pond, it's a solid little desk, but I hate the fx, has anyone else found them a bit weird?

Kev

Kev, my ZED10 doesn't have FX, but I have used the ZED10FX model a few times in the past.
I also owned a ZED16FX for 3+ years up until 2 weeks ago when I sold it.

I always found the built in FX on the A&H ZED mixers to be pretty damn good, especially considering the "cheap and cheerful" category these wonderful little mixers fall into.
Most of the ZED's built in FX sound better than what the DL1608 offers.

I've been following your posts for a quite a while, since 25 September last year,  and it quickly became obvious that you want as much bang for your buck as possible.

That's ok. I think we all do.

But as far as I'm concerned I'm more than happy to "go with the flow" in regards to built in FX on BUDGET CONSCIOUS audio gear.
My A&H ZED experience has shown me that their built in FX are nicer than the ones in my DL. But not by much.
But I'm happy to live with them considering the current price bracket I'm spending.
For low $ I expect nothing more than "ok" FX.

If you want epically awesome reverbs, delays, choruses, etc, you really need to consider a different level of audio gear.
More expensive probably.
Or if Mackie simply can't provide REALLY GOOD built in FX at any level then you're probably wasting your time here

My guess right now would be that no matter what BUDGET mixer you finally end up buying, be it digital or analogue, will likely fall short of your demanding expectations.

Maybe if Behringer offers fantasmagorical on its cheap as chips, low end mixers then that may be the best way for you to go.

Cheap to buy. Lotsa great features that make you happy and satisfied. No more time wasting, hand wringing, or rocking back and forth.

Just an observation from someone else who "researches the shit" out of everything I buy....but makes a concrete decision in well under 7 months

[Keyboard Magic]

I think we’re all demanding on what gear we buy. Sometimes it just takes us a little longer to decide what we really want for the money we can actually afford, no matter the price. Whatever gear we buy, cheap, expensive, or somewhere in between, it’s a very big investment, not something to be taken lightly.

Forums like this are a good way to discuss, share information and make decisions based on other professional’s experiences and opinions. I only do sound maybe twice a month now if I’m lucky and really have to justify spending on gear. It took me almost a year of research and waffling to upgrade my powered speakers. We’re all different and that’s what makes this forum so interesting. 

[Kev tyler]

I purchased a zed 10fx recently whilst I contemplated jumping in to the digital pond, it's a solid little desk, but I hate the fx, has anyone else found them a bit weird?

Kev

Kev, my ZED10 doesn't have FX, but I have used the ZED10FX model a few times in the past.
I also owned a ZED16FX for 3+ years up until 2 weeks ago when I sold it.

I always found the built in FX on the A&H ZED mixers to be pretty damn good, especially considering the "cheap and cheerful" category these wonderful little mixers fall into.
Most of the ZED's built in FX sound better than what the DL1608 offers.

I've been following your posts for a quite a while, since 25 September last year,  and it quickly became obvious that you want as much bang for your buck as possible.

That's ok. I think we all do.

But as far as I'm concerned I'm more than happy to "go with the flow" in regards to built in FX on BUDGET CONSCIOUS audio gear.
My A&H ZED experience has shown me that their built in FX are nicer than the ones in my DL. But not by much.
But I'm happy to live with them considering the current price bracket I'm spending.
For low $ I expect nothing more than "ok" FX.

If you want epically awesome reverbs, delays, choruses, etc, you really need to consider a different level of audio gear.
More expensive probably.
Or if Mackie simply can't provide REALLY GOOD built in FX at any level then you're probably wasting your time here

My guess right now would be that no matter what BUDGET mixer you finally end up buying, be it digital or analogue, will likely fall short of your demanding expectations.

Maybe if Behringer offers fantasmagorical on its cheap as chips, low end mixers then that may be the best way for you to go.

Cheap to buy. Lotsa great features that make you happy and satisfied. No more time wasting, hand wringing, or rocking back and forth.

Just an observation from someone else who "researches the shit" out of everything I buy....but makes a concrete decision in well under 7 months

Hi sir Krang,

Thanks for the response, I am not after a mind blowing mixer experience, as a solo or duo, i don't need chorus or echo or a zillion routing options, just one decent reverb patch and an app that can cope with playback and control at the same time , up to the recent birth of my son, I would have happily spent a thousand dollars on a three input mixer if one existed, but since I have abandoned my premium gigs I don't really need anything clever, as you suggest berry  and co have had me tooing  and throwing for some time but I am in no hurry and whatever my decisions are it really has no impact on  anyone here or on the other forum does it?

 Back to the topic, I do have a couple of digital reverbs here,  an old quadravverb and an upmarket  Yamaha job, I just don't have room in my rack for them and have to get by without them.

I know I am taking a long time to jump in to the digital pond but it's tough here, there is no differential in pay between an act with lights, an act with ten inch speakers an act with lights and subs and mid tops  all processed, using a 1000 euro mic or a  thoman t bone mic, one of the acts here I notice  only brings one speaker in, 😂 and

I saw a really good duo on Sunday with no FOH pa at all , but had two ev s 200 as floor wedges doing monitors and main pa.

My wembley stadium aspirations are well behind me now, so   with relation to upgrades,  everything i do now is for my own  satisfaction,   And with relation to playing to 50 to 100 people, the audience don't care about sound to a degree, and won't be bothered if I have a digi or analogue desk, they might notice the digital sugar coating is making everything nice but I doubt it, in the bread and butter world people  have become accustomed to the sound of thoman plastic, so I can afford to wait and wait and wait and hope that eventually a product comes along that will make me part with my cash, probably to keep my own interest in the job more than anything else, right now the problems with the new x range, and the ongoing issues with the Dl are making me do nothing and I am sure you can all understand that.

Cheers

Kev

[robbocurry]

I purchased a zed 10fx recently whilst I contemplated jumping in to the digital pond, it's a solid little desk, but I hate the fx, has anyone else found them a bit weird?

Kev

Kev, my ZED10 doesn't have FX, but I have used the ZED10FX model a few times in the past.
I also owned a ZED16FX for 3+ years up until 2 weeks ago when I sold it.

I always found the built in FX on the A&H ZED mixers to be pretty damn good, especially considering the "cheap and cheerful" category these wonderful little mixers fall into.
Most of the ZED's built in FX sound better than what the DL1608 offers.

I've been following your posts for a quite a while, since 25 September last year,  and it quickly became obvious that you want as much bang for your buck as possible.

That's ok. I think we all do.

But as far as I'm concerned I'm more than happy to "go with the flow" in regards to built in FX on BUDGET CONSCIOUS audio gear.
My A&H ZED experience has shown me that their built in FX are nicer than the ones in my DL. But not by much.
But I'm happy to live with them considering the current price bracket I'm spending.
For low $ I expect nothing more than "ok" FX.

If you want epically awesome reverbs, delays, choruses, etc, you really need to consider a different level of audio gear.
More expensive probably.
Or if Mackie simply can't provide REALLY GOOD built in FX at any level then you're probably wasting your time here

My guess right now would be that no matter what BUDGET mixer you finally end up buying, be it digital or analogue, will likely fall short of your demanding expectations.

Maybe if Behringer offers fantasmagorical on its cheap as chips, low end mixers then that may be the best way for you to go.

Cheap to buy. Lotsa great features that make you happy and satisfied. No more time wasting, hand wringing, or rocking back and forth.

Just an observation from someone else who "researches the shit" out of everything I buy....but makes a concrete decision in well under 7 months

Hi sir Krang,

Thanks for the response, I am not after a mind blowing mixer experience, as a solo or duo, i don't need chorus or echo or a zillion routing options, just one decent reverb patch and an app that can cope with playback and control at the same time , up to the recent birth of my son, I would have happily spent a thousand dollars on a three input mixer if one existed, but since I have abandoned my premium gigs I don't really need anything clever, as you suggest berry  and co have had me tooing  and throwing for some time but I am in no hurry and whatever my decisions are it really has no impact on  anyone here or on the other forum does it?

 Back to the topic, I do have a couple of digital reverbs here,  an old quadravverb and an upmarket  Yamaha job, I just don't have room in my rack for them and have to get by without them.

I know I am taking a long time to jump in to the digital pond but it's tough here, there is no differential in pay between an act with lights, an act with ten inch speakers an act with lights and subs and mid tops  all processed, using a 1000 euro mic or a  thoman t bone mic, one of the acts here I notice  only brings one speaker in, 😂 and

I saw a really good duo on Sunday with no FOH pa at all , but had two ev s 200 as floor wedges doing monitors and main pa.

My wembley stadium aspirations are well behind me now, so   with relation to upgrades,  everything i do now is for my own  satisfaction,   And with relation to playing to 50 to 100 people, the audience don't care about sound to a degree, and won't be bothered if I have a digi or analogue desk, they might notice the digital sugar coating is making everything nice but I doubt it, in the bread and butter world people  have become accustomed to the sound of thoman plastic, so I can afford to wait and wait and wait and hope that eventually a product comes along that will make me part with my cash, probably to keep my own interest in the job more than anything else, right now the problems with the new x range, and the ongoing issues with the Dl are making me do nothing and I am sure you can all understand that.

Cheers

Kev

Honestly Kev, I'm not sure what the "ongoing issues with the DL" really are?
The lack of posting on this forum suggests that MF3.0 has matured and there is nothing really worth talking about at the moment. 
I know some of the guys may have different and less favourable opinions regarding the DL but I was using my DL 2-3 times every week for nearly two years and nothing - I repeat nothing - that the DL ever did, impacted negatively on a gig during that time.
 
I don't expect any audience to know or care about how good the sound is, but I care.
That's why I'll usually buy something perhaps a little better than I really need.
On the other hand, I'll minimize the amount of gear I bring in if I can, especially if on a tight budget, but I'll still want it to be good too!

If you're getting away with what you have and it's not bothering you, I'd save my money and buy FA cup final tickets for Arsenal vs Aston Villa instead! 
Having said that, the DL806 is so damn cheap at the moment and it's here right now. A definite upgrade to the ZED10, much as it has it's merits!!