Aux subs, DRPA and Dl1608

[Greg C.]

I wouldn't bother with aux run subs.  what is the reason for using them?  If you have a properly setup Drive Rack with subs, you don't really need to separate out items for the subs.

Plenty of good reasons to run aux fed subs. Few reasons not to. I do it for systems small and large. It's an asset in both cases and for slightly varying reasons.

[Trshot]

Greg C, 
That's pretty much what I've read. To get back on subject can it be accomplished with a DRPA ? BTW,  I run my system mono if that helps...thanks

[Greg C.]

Greg C, 
That's pretty much what I've read. To get back on subject can it be accomplished with a DRPA ? BTW,  I run my system mono if that helps...thanks

Here's how I've got my rig setup - I'm using an XTA digital speaker processor for my tops. They require more than just a basic crossover since they're non-powered. They're 4-way active with separate amps/channels for each driver set (15s, 10s, 2" compression drivers, 1" compression drivers). I don't have enough channels in the XTA (4 in/8 out) to run extra processing for the subs. So I just use a simple dbx 223XL analog crossover to low pass the sub aux send. For my setup, the only thing between the sub amps and the crossover is an old analog Symetrics limiter for protection. Alternatively you could get a second DRPA for just the subs if wanted to or needed the extra delay/EQ/limiting the DRPA affords. Otherwise an inexpensive analog processor/crossover would work fine for the sub send.

[Trshot]

Thoughts on using the DL1608's Aux out and use the LPF/HPF to set xover points and EQ to tune? The only thing I'd be missing is a limiter but with proper gain structure I should be (relatively) safe, yes?

[Greg C.]

Thoughts on using the DL1608's Aux out and use the LPF/HPF to set xover points and EQ to tune? The only thing I'd be missing is a limiter but with proper gain structure I should be (relatively) safe, yes?

I forget what the slope is on the pass filters on the DL. But if you can achieve 24dB per octave, that will work. The limiter isn't so much about gain structure. It's about overdriving the subs which is possible regardless of the gain structure of the system. If you're careful and the only one driving your rig, you can get away without it if you know the limits and can keep an eye on the amps. Before I doubled my number of subs recently, there were shows where I was hitting the limiter pretty well at levels that would have destroyed the subs with no limiter in place. But my setup is designed to be able to hit limiting without egregious distortion or pumping in the subs. And it makes the system relatively worry free to know you can hit it hard without blowing it up doing hip-hop and loud metal.

Greg

[RoadRanger]

The DL mixers has adjustable limiters on all the outputs...

[Trshot]

RR, there are limiters or compressors or both? I don't recall seeing limiters.

[Trshot]

Greg, NO hip hop or metal here! Top 40 dance/Rock is what we play.

[Topsøe]

The output processing on the DL is: high pass , lo pass both selectable 6-12-18-24/dB oct. , four band parametric , 31 band grafic eq , comp/limitor and delay

[Greg C.]

Greg, NO hip hop or metal here! Top 40 dance/Rock is what we play.

I do hippy jam bands too

[Greg C.]

Desk shot.

[Wynnd]

I'm one of those who only use subs to extend the PA range downward.  Most people use them to add stupid amounts of excessive bass.  If the drummer really wanted to sound like that, wouldn't they bring their own rig??.  We will never be on the same side of that argument.  The DriveRack PA makes my type of use easy.  Not sure it works as well for that other. 

[RoadRanger]

RR, there are limiters or compressors or both? I don't recall seeing limiters.

The compressor can be adjusted to be a limiter:
http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/processing/limiter/

[Greg C.]

I'm one of those who only use subs to extend the PA range downward.  Most people use them to add stupid amounts of excessive bass.  If the drummer really wanted to sound like that, wouldn't they bring their own rig??.  We will never be on the same side of that argument.  The DriveRack PA makes my type of use easy.  Not sure it works as well for that other.

Having subs on an aux send doesn't change the balance of a given system unless you want it to. Setup by the book, aux sub system response will be identical to a "standard" setup with subs treated like a regular bandpass on a multi-way crossover. The advantages of aux subs are:

1. keeping low frequency "gak" out of the subs from open mic sources that cannot be completely eliminated by high pass filter which in turn...
2. saves subwoofer headroom by not reproducing low frequency information from mics you don't want in the subs anyway

The more open mics you have on a standard system, the more aggregate low frequency information gets into the subs.

With aux fed subs, only the sources that need subwoofer reproduction are sent to the subs. Nothing else. This tends to increase system clarity and headroom. On big systems where you have a lot of PA and a lot sub, it's almost essential in my opinion because vocal mic plosives getting into the subs can sound tremendous. Aux based subs fix that issue without having to resort to drastic high passing of the offending channel that can suck the warmth out of the vocal tone because the plosive can't reach the subs.

But by all means, do what works for you. But don't assume that folks running aux subs are in it just to overwhelm you with subwoofers. They may be doing it for the exact opposite reason.

[Wynnd]

Wasn't commenting on Aux fed subs.  Was complaining on kick in the chest.  I really hate that.  Who thought that was a good idea?  (Don't really want an answer.)  First time I felt that was at Fiddler's green for a concert that included Emerson, Lake and Palmer and Deep Purple.  Not good.   Next time I'll bring binoculars and sit way in the back away from the audio assault.