DL16S vs. XR18

[WK154]

The inevitable comparison has to happen at some time. Ass-u-me Mackie Marketing has advertised all the upcoming major features of the Master Fader 5.0/5.1. I thought to keep it simple in that I would only list the missing or differing features between the DL16S and the XR18. These are the most likely 16 channel mixers for comparison amidst the lot.

First let’s list the obvious Physical differences.

DL16S:
Single carrying handle on side
8 XLR-F inputs
8 Combo-F inputs

XR18:
Two carrying handles on face
16 Combo-F inputs
2 TRS Line inputs
1 Ultranet  (16 individual monitor mix outputs with additional gear)
MIDI in/out for Midi functions (limited mixer control with additional gear)
Ethernet/WiFi  3 position switch for multiple control modes
Physical control  surface option (X-Touch)

I have one observation about the Ethernet/Wi-Fi on the DL16S.  Since there is no external switch some of the XR18 modes are not likely implemented. We’ll have to wait on this until the manual is posted. There is a reset switch between the power led and the Wi-Fi led no doubt to set a default mode or clear all settings/firmware update.

Onward to the Software Apps comparison. I will follow the marketing points of each manufacturer and only include the major missing functionality of the competitor.

DL16S:
The list is actually pretty thin with “the complete feature list” being the multiple platforms that are short of the XR18 choices. Minor UI improvements to the existing app are touted.  The UI is difficult to compare in anything but the content of the screens. They are all different even within the XR18 apps. The “Rack Mount influenced” screen should be labeled the “B… influenced” by the FX and channel views . So I expanded my search to also include the DL User Voice requests 17 in all. After reducing the duplicate requests it boiled down to 5 Multi-platform request, 7 FX requests, 2 Multi-track recording requests, 2 Stage-box requests and 1 Dante request that doesn’t apply here. Like I said thin!

Pink/White/Single Frequency generator channel route-able.
2 additional DCA’s (third party XR18 Android app exceeds this).
Uniform UI on the multiple platforms (time will tell).
20 user control surfaces (for 16 channels, REALLY)
One Sampling Frequency 48K
Output delays


XR18:
4 DCA’s on the Behringer apps. . Many more iDCA’ available on Schumann’s Android app.
Several 3rd party apps (OSC open communications protocol vs. DL Proprietary Mandolin protocol).
Different UI’s for the multi-platform apps. (More things to like or dislike).
10 user control surfaces on some platforms (external router based), 4 on the internal Wi-Fi AP.
6 buses with 6 sources.
Two sampling Frequencies 48K and 44.1K
2 TRS line input channels making it 18 instead of 16 input channels (excluding USB I/O).
Auto mix (previously incorrectly called “Dan Dugans” auto mix).
Linux and RASPI platform apps.
A lot more FX's
3 years of user testing.

Warranty:
Mackie 1 year
Behringer 3 years (must register)

MAP Pricing:
DL16S $699
XR18 $599   ***** Oct. pricing from Thomann USA is ~ $400 *****
For comparison with essentially the same features except case.
DL1608 $599
X18 $449

I’m certain I’ve left out features important to some, so please let me know but don’t tell me about UI layout likes or dislikes or Brand Names.

Cheers

[WK154]

In 2012 Mackie laid a Golden Egg (the Dl1608). In 2018 they simply laid a egg. I don't see any reason to wait for the detail on Software none of that will matter for my opinion on the DL16S. It's simply "too little too late". It took Mackie six years to come out with a slightly revised stage-box version of the DL1608  . That's after most everyone else in the market did. Not even a new feature over and above the competition. No fine fader adjustment, Bluetooth, no MP3, not even 44.1k wave audio, NADA...nothing! Except for the Brand buyers the answer to buying this tool at it's present price is a resounding NO. No value for your money over the competition. That's my opinion and I'm certain some won't agree, that's your choice.

[shufflebeat]

Can we clarify where we stand on delays to outputs? That was the reason I was holding off on the Behringer. I can't imagine why they didn't consider this a basic essential - glad Mackie did.

[WK154]

Can we clarify where we stand on delays to outputs? That was the reason I was holding off on the Behringer. I can't imagine why they didn't consider this a basic essential - glad Mackie did.

To Quote Jan Duwe (product manager of X-Air)  "We do in fact have a bunch of new effects dsp algorithms developed meanwhile. And we also identified a solution for providing bus output delays. However, the problem I currently have, is that the developers I would need for providing those functions in the iOS and Android app's UI are tied to other very important projects temporarily. " Translated don't hold your breath, someday. On the other hand if your amps are DSP types (NuXXXXDSP etc.)  then you most likely already have a solution to the delay.

[shufflebeat]

Well spotted, W.

Looks like I'll be holding out til the next gen is thought through and released. I suppose we'll eventually just have a generic i/o stagebox and all the processing will be done on the phone.

[WK154]

For me a phone will never cut it. To put a date on the Jan's quote it was around Aug 24 2018. I would suspect NAMM 2019 might be interesting.

[robbocurry]

Here in the UK the XR18 has dropped to approximately £350 making it way cheaper than even the DL806!
That’s almost 1/2 price of the new DL16s here.
Same price now as the ageing X32 rack. 
That’s hard to look past for the buyer.
It’s also close (within £200) to the price of an AH Qu SB - a premium brand, quality unit.
Sadly, I think UK/EU sales of this new unit will be dead in the water unless Mackie rethink their prices....

[WK154]

Yes I checked Thomann UK/EU and it looks like they dropped the XR18 down to the X18. Even Thomann USA  with their $34.70 shipping gets it down to $400. In Mackie's two major markets the DL16S is overpriced. Coupled with less features than the XR18 it should be a nonstarter. So what's the strategy here, milk the Mackie fans and then drop the price when it drys up ?

[robbocurry]

I think they’ve just had the rug pulled out from under them by the mega company.
Money is tight all over and both these products aren’t aimed at the top end of the market.
I don’t think Mackie has the status in Europe to be adding a price premium.
I think they pitched it a little above the xr18 but Uli has reacted quickly and now the xr 16 and 18 are super value for money. Mackie need to drop the price quickly or these new mixers are dead in the water. I’d be sad to see that. 
That’s just my opinion FWIW.
It is as you say perhaps “too little too late”.
Long time no speak btw!
What do you think would have been a killer feature that would have made this the “go to” at £$600-700?

[WK154]

For starters a WiFi current with the rest of the world /AC capable. The Mandolin (App layer above  UDP) needs to be scrapped and TCP needs to be there for reliability (Mackie doesn't have anyone smart enough to replace it.). To help that along the lower priced 10/100/1000 chip should have been in place before the 10/100 is obsolete and no longer available. Then the rest would be gravy.
See   http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=1438.0
As I said many times before I hate to see Mackie disappear or worse be bought by the Music Tribe 

[robbocurry]

Hey WK, I went to the link in your reply. Yes an integrated power section would have been a coup for Mackie. It’s the next logical step for the compact musician.
Not a new idea but an LCD screen would have been nice. The screen and a big knob 😉 are one of the reasons I love my QuPac so much. It’s either my fingers or my tablets but I can’t ever get the finess I need via tablet.
Has the hardwired link and software improved on the DL series to make a connected iPad a reliable alternative?
Iirc I used wireless with my dl most of the time waaaay back!

[WK154]

To answer "Has the hardwired link and software improved on the DL series to make a connected iPad a reliable alternative?". When I last bench tested the DL on the wired connection it worked fine (convoluted setup) but I never gigged it. I was already 1 to 2 years into the XR18 with it's own WiFi problems (internal unit). I use WiFi for setup but then go wired for the gig.