Opinion poll: Which brand inspires more confidence - Mackie or Behringer?

[Jerrylee]

Lee, sorry but that is not what you said. Here is what you said "This unit has everything it needs to be way ahead of the pack". Clearly it does not. If you said that the dl is currently the head of the pack because they are the only one in the pack. Then yes you would be correct. I clearly stated this in my reply to you. But this is not what you said. In 1 million percent truth this statement would be much better: " This unit DOES NOT have everything it needs to be way ahead of the pack". A much easier statement to defend.

We all know that new direct competition will be coming out. And the DLs hardware will have Mackie wishing that  "This unit has everything it needs to be way ahead of the pack", but sadly it doesn't.

[LeeSteel]

It IS currently WAY ahead of the pack considering that NOTHING else touches it.
Any product being speculated as a competitor is merely vaporware until it is physically in a users hands.
When Behringer releases their iPad model, when?? based on the FCA1616 maybe 2014, we can revisit this discussion.
Until then, I will be a happy customer.
I will also add that when the Behringer product comes out, and if it gets good reviews, and Mackie isn't still thrilling, I will probably be tempted to change.... Seriously doubting that will happen this year though.

[Jerrylee]

Lee you honest feeling were proven to be wrong. Just admit you were wrong and move on. I know that is hard for you to admit. People here hate being proved wrong even when the facts are presented to them. This is a world of ignorance.

[LeeSteel]

You have only proven that there is vaporware that claims that it will be better when it is released. That's all.
Today's facts and today's standards are the only true facts.



I have some great beachfront property to sell you Wyoming.
Look, here is a picture.
Each palm tree has midi in, out and through.

[diggo]

5. The current Delay and Reverb are nothing more than plugins. We may be limited to 2 at a time, but we certainly should not be limited to which ones we use or where they came from.

I think in practice this would be a nightmare to implement after-the-fact..... 

[LeeSteel]

5. The current Delay and Reverb are nothing more than plugins. We may be limited to 2 at a time, but we certainly should not be limited to which ones we use or where they came from.

I think in practice this would be a nightmare to implement after-the-fact.....

Quite possibly could be. I'm no programmer. Perhaps it would expose code that Mackie doesn't want to share. It's a wish, not a game changer. I can live with the current delay and reverb for the shows I do. If I need a better verb, I have a few outboard gadgets I could use if I was inspired to lug an additional rack.

[Jerrylee]

Lee, your statement said "needs to be". This is referring to the future. You talk about 1.5, again the future. But I guess you have no clue what you actually stated. Geez. Please I ask again defend the original statement you made. Or just say you were wrong and what you actually meant to say is....fill in the blank.

[robbocurry]

Any more "war" stories out there regarding these two brands anyone?

[Jerrylee]

I have a lot of good stories about behringer. Only a couple, kind of, bad stories that turned out great. I have been blown away with their exceptional customer service.

Ill try to make this quick.

I have owned several of their products. I had an analogue mixing board bought in the mid 90s. My first board ever. It's the one that looked like the old mackies but blue. Behringer was sued by Mackie back then. Their boards were the same grey as the mackies and looked super similar. Behringer lost the case. All they did was change the color of the board. I don't know what kind of money they lost. Once at a gig in 2003 a glass of water vibrated off a shelf that was just over my pa rack. Right into the board! The night was over. I thought the board was done for. I let it dry out and only lost one of the xlr inputs. Channel 4. The 1/4 on that channel still worked. I stopped using the rack not too much later because I bought a powered mixer, a behringer pmp 2000. The board is still working to this day. I gave it to a bar where I was playing because they had a peavy that crapped out. It's been there since 2007. It's in a smokey bar that has live music just about every night and bartenders that run their mp3s through it. Used to be a CD player but those are so last decade. Still working great.

I forgot to mention that when the water spilled on the board I thought it was done for, so I bought a Mackie cr1604 because i didnt know it would come back to life. It was very shortly after that I went to the powered board. Inside my rack, along with other stuff, was a behringer dual tube pre and a ultracurve. They were the ones that had the cool vintage look. Ended up in my studio.

The pmp 2000 went into use mid 2003. It was awesome. No more pulling around a huge rack. I used this for many years and one day, because of GAS, I bought a behringer pmp980s. It was the newer version. I think this was in 2008ish. The pmp 2000 went into my garage. Still working great. 1 week after the year warranty was over the 980 started sparking up at a gig. Literally sparking. Night over, kind of. What sucked was it was a first night at a new gig. While I scrambled to figure how to play (had a powered sub with external out to power tops) I sent my keyboardist to my house to grab the pmp2000. I started calling her old faithful. She saved the night. I sold her when I went to an all powered set up.

I called behringer and even though I was out of warranty they sent me to a repair guy. He said the parts were unobtainable. So I called behringer back. They ended up sending me a pmp4000 to replace it free of charge. And the pmp4000 was a more expensive board. Much better features. Now that was good customer service.

Due to GAS I ended up purchasing many different PA systems and eventually wanted qsc powered speakers and a presonus. So just after getting the pmp4000 I sold it as practically new. I only had it for a month or 2 before going with presonus. But point is what great service.

A couple of years ago I also sold everything in my rack including the tube pre and ultracurve. Both working great.

I also have a couple b210d powered speakers I use for monitors. One day I was sliding one out of my car and it got caught on something. It wasn't too old. I yanked it and snapped off the volume control. Totally my fault. I actually called behringer and told them that it fell off at a gig (yes I lied) and guess what. They sent me a brand new one. I have 2 and both work great.

I bought a bugera amp after selling off my Mesa and my classic 30. I barely, almost never, play electric but have high end guitars so I thought I need to have an amp. I wanted a cheap tube amp and stumbled upon bugera. This was 2009/2010. The amp sat for almost a year and I decided it was time to let it go. I sold it to a friend. He actually put it to use. He called me and told me about an issue that the channels would change on their own. I did some research and found that behringer put out a statement that the amps manufactured in 2009 did have a factory defect. I called behringer and they sent me to a repair facility in Miami. About 65 mile drive. This was not fun. The amp sat and sat. The shop was waiting on the part which behringer could not find. Lots of back and fourth calls. My friend kept asking when I would get him the amp back. He was very patient. The shop that had it said they were just going to find the part on their own and ask behringer to pay for it. Behringer also said they located the part but apparently never shipped it. There was a ton of back and fourth and waiting. This went on for almost 2 months. So eventually what did behringer do? They sent me a brand new one. Made my friend happy because now the almost 1 year old amp was new in the box. And a big bonus happened. I thought this was all over, but the shop in Miami called a couple weeks later and said that the part they ordered came in and my amp was fixed. Apparently they did not get any notice from behringer about the new amp. So I went down and picked it up and sold it a week later. BONUS! I actually made a lot more than I paid to begin with. I sold 2 amps.

Another note. Every time I spoke to behringer they were extremely nice and helpful. They said "don't worry, we are here to help you". They did nothing but go above and beyond anything I ever expected.

The couple of issues I had are minor compared to the great experiences I had.

[diggo]

5. The current Delay and Reverb are nothing more than plugins. We may be limited to 2 at a time, but we certainly should not be limited to which ones we use or where they came from.

I think in practice this would be a nightmare to implement after-the-fact.....

Quite possibly could be. I'm no programmer. Perhaps it would expose code that Mackie doesn't want to share. It's a wish, not a game changer. I can live with the current delay and reverb for the shows I do. If I need a better verb, I have a few outboard gadgets I could use if I was inspired to lug an additional rack.

To clarify, the original quote implied third party plugins: "we certainly should not be limited to which ones we use or where they came from".

If plugins were loaded into the iPad (as per, say, Auria), enabling that capability would require loading the plugin/s into memory on the mixer. Passing audio processing through the iPad is not how the product has been designed, especially when considering use via detached devices (over WiFi). Even if it was possible, think of the byzantine complexities related to preserving/syncing the system state, particularly if other devices dont have the exact same plugins installed. I cant see this working unless Mackie fundamentally changed the design.

If Mackie made an API available for third party plugins (as per, say, FabFilter's excellent plugins for Auria) then maybe things could be different, presuming there's sufficient memory real estate and DSP cycles to store/load/run alternative plugins.

But "extra plugins' should be low in priority on the wish list - there are many more important issues which need improving asap.

Right now, we can use third party processors via the Aux sends (and/or headphone output if you wanna sacrifice the solo function), but with the unfortunate limitation that input channels are consumed by the returns. In this regard, it's a shame the original design excluded channel inserts.

[robbocurry]

Good story Jerry,
Breakdowns are a fact of life, it's the after sales service that counts.
Looks like Behringer US are a whole world apart from the Behringer service I'd experienced.
It must be five years since I'd any dealings with them.
Again, good story, ta:)

[lightguy48]

I've got a bunch of old Behringer Gates, Compressors, EQ's, etc all still work great, never had an issue with them.  Same goes for a bunch of my Mackie mixers. 

Realistically I'm pretty much 50/50 on quality.  HOWEVER, when it comes to R&D Behringer is just SMOKING Mackie!  I'm seeing X32's everywhere, on national TV shows, Churches, Theatre's etc.  I have heard zero complaints about the mixer.  However, I hear nothing but complaints about the DL1608.  I really like the concept and think it's a decent mixer but when I saw iX16 and knowing about how the X32 is performing I about threw up in my mouth... just makes me sick to my stomach because I should have waited before buying my DL1608 to see what else might come on to the market! 

And yes it's technically vaporware at this point but if I put odds on Behringer releasing the iX16 vs Mackie producing some meaningful updates to the DL1608 I would completely bet on Behringer at this point!

[cthesound]

I've only used Mackie mixers and have never had a failure. Though, I did notice a big improvement in the noise floor and overall sound quality when going from an SR24-4 to a Tascam DM24, at our church. The Mackie was much "darker".
I have used lots of Behringer and have personally experienced a few failures. Once, I had a Composer Pro in front of an amp for peak limiting and when I powered up the amp rack at a show, the speakers were JAMMING some real nasty sound and I about sh_t me drawers. (yes the amp inputs were up) Well, figured out that the levels were maxed on one of the limiter channels, from internal demons . That was one of a few, not so fun experiences. And, I've had friends have similar happenings.
Burn me once, ok, burn me again and again, ok, I get it.
I do still use some Beh gear (mdx4600's for channel compression and deq2496 for delay/rta), but I won't be buying more, at least anytime soon.
I am falling into that line of thinking now with Mackie, too. The shortcomings of the DL, hard and softwares, will probably erase it from the market. Getting fixes for the poor design has really been hard to swallow.
But, until it's replaced...

[CyberHippy]

The early Mackie speakers were made (and mostly designed) by RCF in Italy and where top notch. Mackie then had Chinese copies made and sold those, not-so-good . That happened after Greg Mackie sold the company in 2003 :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Clark_Mackie

Yep, I'll hold on to my old Mackie C300's until I die, they're invincible

I've been a fan of Mackie for years, especially the Onyx mixers.

Behringer I've had great luck with their rack mount gear & amps, but just about every one of their mixers I've laid hands on has some issue you "just have to work around" - having said that I'm very intrigued by their new digital lineup & the Midas connection. A friend is considering the X32 so I did some research & was very impressed with the design & functionality of the thing.

[Greg C.]

To answer the question in the title, at least for me, neither brand truly inspires confidence. I've had enough field failures by both companies to warrant a "poor reliability" rating over the years. And add in lack of good support when there are problems to compound my distrust. There have been some solid performers though by both companies too though. For instance, I have Mackie SRM450s (the original RCF version) that haven't had any problems in over 10 years even after much abuse. And I've had some Behringer items that have lasted nearly as long. Given what's going on today, I'd have to say Behringer wins for now, as much as I loath to say that.