Used the DL32R For First Time New Year's Eve - My Overview/Review

[takis]

Happy New Year to everyone, first off.

I bit the bullet to use the new system for a larger new year's eve gig this past week... ~300 poeple...

I did play around the software in my basement for about 2-3 weeks using only 2 speakers to test things out...  So, the new year's gig set of 6 speaker setup (each speaker is a JBL 2-way with 15" and tweeter), thus the overall volume and mixing with the entire system was not really ever tested.

My band is a 4 piece band where the keyboardist plays left hand bass with right hand leads, drums, guitar, and bouzouki (greek lead guitar insturment).  Thus, we are not your typical 'American' band mix..   (www.thestigmaband.com - live music is there for you to understand the style of music)


So here is the pros an cons (only one) itemized in no specific order:

1a) Overall, the sound was much, much tighter - the drums where the best I ever heard them sound - this of course was due to the gate+compresors per channel for each drum.
1b) Clarity of each channel was much cleaner - likewise the EQ settings are very sensitive - I have always used Mackie since their arrival in early 90's - I was using the Onyx 16-channel before the transition.  Thus, I am comparing the EQ with the previous mackie boards.. overall an improvement
2a) The setup was so much easier...  Every individual person in the band plugs into their own channels (thus,  I did not have to do this as I have done before)...  Only had to hookup speaker cables... no other peripheral splitter cables, etc.
2b) The breakdown was even quicker...
3) The EQ settings and compresor/gate settings of the Output Matrices I had setup are very, very importaqnt... The only way I truly was able to tweak them correctly was while we were playing at a louder volume - of course, this will change the mix of everything including vocals - make sure you are ready for this your first few gigs.
4) Vocal mics sounded the clearist I ever heard them sound.. which is very importatn in Greek music... in other words, the vocals are always much louder in volume than the overall mix.  Even at the louder volumes we played at, there was no feedback - but I use QSC larger 700-800Watts per speaker (8 ohms), thus have much headroom.
5) The delay efffects are pretty good (used more of this effect since the reverbs were terrrible).

The ONLY negative, and for me, it is a big one, all the reverbs sounded like crap...  Now, I tried EQing them, but overall, I did not find one that sounded like my Lexicons that I used in my previous setup.

So, if any one has any advice, these are the next steps that I need to try:

1) Try tweaking the reverb again with the EQ at the next gig, realease, decay, ect. at the next gig.. because in the basement, it sounded OK, but again, the volume was not that loud.
2) See if I can use an external software plugin into the Fader software of a 3rd party reverb I like
3) Wait until Mackie comes out with better reverbs (even if I have to pay a little extra) - I truly think the reverbs do not have long enough digital filters to get the better reverb sounds in their plugins (but this is too technical for this discussion)
4) Or figure out how to hookup the actual hardware Lexicon into the system and loop those effects in - of course, would rather not do this....

Overall, the gig went very well considering the first time using this type of system...  Did not start drinking until after 12am due to this reason...  By the way, it is important to mention, that I am the keyboard player, thus, I was doing the mixing and figuring out while we were playing...  The good thing is that I had the 2-3 view setups ready, thus making it easy for me to toggle back and forht between views...

So, for those who will be trying this system for the first time, make sure you pay attention to the setup of each channel's compresor.gate setings.. even more important, the output comp/gate settings...  you will have to adjust this throughout the the night until you reach your system's loudest volumen and may have to retweak again.. but then it may alter your overall sound of other instruments, especially the drums and/or bass to get louder/punchier, where again, you have to go back to the channel compr/gate for each and adjust.

Finally, the reverb effects are very bad... unless someone corrects me and/or tells me the best way to tweak them.

Good luck to everyone with the DL32R and again Happy New Year to everyone.

Taki

[RoadRanger]

There's a FAQ here about the reverbs - but yah, they aren't near as good as a Lexicon or most any other unit I've heard. 'Usable" at best. OTOH the first reviewer of the DL32R documented hooking up an external FX unit - did you miss that?

http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=197.0

[takis]

Actually, I read that topic after I wrote mine.  Actually, I feel good that I am not the only one that feels this way about the reverb..

But hooking up external hardware defeats the purpose of why I switched to this system...  this will be my last resort...

I truly am hoping that Mackie will include some better reverbs.  I understand with the better reverbs more processing power is needed from your iPad, but I have the newest one and for those who use older iPads, if there is a lag, can simply not use it...

It would be nice if I get a response from someone at Mackie addressing this issue, if it happens to be an issue with others.

[takis]

Sorry, just saw the link, and this was not the topic I read...  Yes, I did not do it the correct way as he stated... OK, let's see if this works next time, and if it does, I am thouroughly content with this system.

Thanks

[RoadRanger]

I understand with the better reverbs more processing power is needed from your iPad

Absolutely not - the reverb is done in the mixer, not the iPad. Just shut off your iPad to prove this to yourself if needed .

[RoadRanger]

Also curious why you bought a DL32R vs a DL1608 for a 4 piece band ?

[takis]

Drums take up 6 mics...  keyboards with sequencer etc...  could take up to 6 inputs...  3 vocals in the band....  guitar and bouzouki - 2 more inputs.. and our DJ system....  another 2 inputs....  I realize this adds to more than 16 inputs....  plus, we backup other musicans and singers from Greece that can lead up to 20-24 channels, where in the past I had to bring 2 mixers whcih is very cloogy...

But overall, I have been monitoring this way to go for the past 2 yeasrs and did not want ot buy things when somewhat proven in technology.. from throughput, things not crapping out.. like software locking, etc.

[pytchley]

The only good thing for me about the reverb is that i have learned a lot about using delays instead.... it really is very poor. Surprising Mackie can't do any better, my ancient SPX90 sounds far better. I've got lexicons and a TC but the whole point of going over to the DL was not taking so much stuff to gigs and as it sits on the stage I can't tweak the settings on outboard so no solution. So lets hope 3.1 not only works without so much lag but also that it has some better reverbs.

[Yorgaki1]

Giasou Takis, Yiorgos Karras here from Dayton. Ive been using the 1608 now for a couple of years with excellent results, although the reverbs aren't the greatest, the delays are usable. I keep an ipod touch velcro'ed right on my bouzouki which makes life so much easier to make level adjustments on the fly out in the crowd. Good luck with the dl32r. It looks like a great unit. Na'se kala kai xronia pola.

[walterw]

So, for those who will be trying this system for the first time, make sure you pay attention to the setup of each channel's compresor.gate setings.. even more important, the output comp/gate settings...

slightly off-topic, but i don't see where you'd ever want to gate an output, and personally i don't see many reasons to compress an output either, outside of setting up hard limiting that should ideally never kick in, like for IEMs or speaker protection.

[Rdmitch]

I've hooked up a outboard behringer FX processor to the 1608 and mixed the  wet signal back in on one available channel.
It works but was more of a pain in the neck than in was worth.  I now just make do
with the built in processor and tweek the presets.  At least with the new software you can save these for future recall.

Glad to see another northern Ohio person here on the forum.

[dpdan]

takis,
I feel your pain and completely agree about the reverb quality.

Please watch the video I put on youtube that shows exactly how I use an external reverb unit.

It is in the back of the rack and always patched in and out and I never even think of it being there.

http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=787.0

Dan 

[takis]

First off George.. Kalh Xronia! - Happy New Year....

Second...  You are correct about the no Gating for the output AUX channels where the mix is going to speakers...  All I was trying to state is that the default case, from what I recall, needing some tweaking.. maybe not the Gate, but the Compressor, for sure.

Third, I reviewed your vidoe for installation of an external unit...  Thanks for taking the time btw...  But I still have a few questions...  I see how you use an actual channel for input and the 1 AUX for return.  But, how do you hookup things in software to use the reverb across all channels, like an Aux channel...  This you did not show...  Or are you using teh effects unit for just one channel.  Thanks

[dpdan]

Hi takis,
I much prefer my old $4,800.00 Lexicon 200 "reverberator" too but the TC is good enough. I use the TC because I got it for nothing from a friend and second, because it can provide two different effects simultaneously.
I use aux 9 for the send to the first processor and aux 10 for the second. I set both reverbs so that they were to my liking and saved the preset. I set the first processor (aux 9) for a normal reverb with a medium size room and reasonably short reverb time. The second processor input gets aux 10. The second reverb is a much larger room with longer reverb tail for ballads. The reverb has left and right outputs and both effects are present on this common stereo output which feeds channels 31 & 32.  I link channels 31 & 32 and leave them turned up for the entire show. I use a mute group for aux 9 and another one for aux 10,.... aux 9 is labeled verb (lower case letters) and aux 10 labeled VERB (upper case letters) This keeps the name short. When I want normal reverb I mute aux 10, when I prefer a much larger reverb, I mute aux 9 and unmute aux 10. I never need to mess with the reverb and it just sits in the rack as if it wasn't there. Works great.


 

 

[takis]

Thanks for the better explanation...  But from what I understand with the way you are doing it, is that you cannot adjust the amount of reverb per channel, per vocalist.. in other words, the same amount o reverb would be used for each cahnnel using that reverb.  That will not work for me at all, because each vocalist uses a differnet amount of reverb.

Am I understanding this correctly?